Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.
Here are a few of them:
Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP). This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.
Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.
As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process. However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.
Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.
But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!
Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.
He needs to manage risk vs reward. When courting, there are two fundamental risks. These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.
So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!
For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important. The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.
Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.
Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.
This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”
And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”
That Churchill, what a card!
Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married; unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.
Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)
They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …
Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma; older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.
Well, you could always marry a dude.
There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.
Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”
The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.
Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?
Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.
But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage. For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.
That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?
As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:
But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).
GIzwardo: What… is marriage to these people? Like… why is that even their goal. Isn’t marriage mysandry because it leads to women being able to get half? Or something else equally inane?
It’s not “marriage” which is bad, but, “modern marriage”, which is what Feminism created to replace, “real marriage”.
In “modern marriage” women are legally the same as men; and they have rights. THAT, is anti-male, and so to be destroyed. To return “proper balance to the sexes” women have to be made dependent on their spouses so the males need not fear being left; in particular they need to not worry that such trivial things as infidelity, abuse, financial irresponsibility, be seen as grounds for a woman to obtain a divorce.
Certainly no woman should be allowed to discover the marriage was making her miserable, and be allowed to “break the contract”, and no one should be allowed to profit from abandoning a male for anything less than, “real abuse” (which is the sort of thing which puts someone in the hospital. Anything less than that isn’t “real abuse” just the sort of thing which either happened because the woman drove the male to doing it, or was a “gentle correction” which narrow-minded fools don’t understand).
So until the return of at-fault divorce, a default assumption of paternal custody, an absolute right to see children, coverture, and such other restorations of the power imbalance as needed to make them feel the women whom they manage to attract can’t leave them; they will decry the “sorry state of modern marriage”, all the while pretending the lack of themselves in the marriage pool is a great hardship to the women in the world.
Bacon: It’s an amazing thing (in all it’s forms). I don’t think I’ve had a style of bacon I didn’t like.
I reserve the fat (as a sort of salted lard) for other cooking, as it’s got a good smoke point, sheets well and provides just the hint of flavor (I find it a pleasant note on beans or asparagus, etc).
Fungi…. I like the flavor, but not much the texture (and the way they react to dry heat… I am not a fan of them on pizza).
Word. I can only pray that these guys give off such a palpably repulsive vibe in person that it’s like an invisible force field, causing women to instinctively step away from them, so that they never have to engage in any way at all.
O/T but, Boobzers!! I’ve found our island!!!!! When are we moving in?
Well white women aren’t that desirable and morality isn’t a very logical way to run your life, so Dalrock loses points there.
But otherwise, how do you manage to write so much and present so little argument? Your writing sould be replaced with a reaction.gif for the sake of brevity. Also, divorce rates amongst dumb young “shallow love” couples is just a tangent. What Dalrock says regarding older women is simultaneously true.
And that is:
-Older women are less attractive
-Older women are less fertile
Because some people have more value than others ❤
Better for men and women to face this reality than pretend everyone is equal.
Also it’s okay to marry dudes these days
But the same problem persists, most gays like hot, juicy young men, not wrinkly old fogeys. Such is life.
Cloudiah: Totally with you on the ‘texture vs. taste of mushrooms’ thing. Shred it fine enough, and I don’t mind it in anything (and I love the flavor of truffle olive oil when cooking). But large pieces? Hell, no. Fortunately, this means my personal food picky-ness is easily accommodated–if the chunks are large enough for me to object to (as in a pasta sauce, for instance), they’re large enough for me to deftly use a fork to move to the side. Pizza’s a bit trickier–it’s gotta be just the right temperature, hot enough that I can dislodge the ‘shroom from the cheese, but cool enough that I can do so with my fingers without burning them.
There was one time when I had mushrooms recently and liked ’em. They were shredded, spiced and then rolled into mini-tortillas like a cigar, and served at an appetizer. They were delicious, and the preparation completely negated the texture issues. (As an aside, if you ever go to the Cirque du Soleil’s traveling shows, and they have the option of the VIP tent, it’s worth being overcharged for the experience, and yes I’m aware that’s a contradiction in terms and I don’t care, it’s how I felt about it.)
Shadow: Bags packed. When’s the next boat out?
Mmmm. Mushrooms and bacon and mussels, oh my! Speaking of sprouts rights, I tried cooking brussels sprouts for the first time last night. Roasted with olive oil, garlic powder, salt and pepper. Tasted a bit like roast potatoes when they came out of the oven, so I tried kicking up the taste with a bit of malt vinegar. Probably a mistake. The first few were good, but once they cooled down, the funk was just too much for me.
Might try that again, pan-cooked with the bacon and cheese and fancy additions.
Shadow, count me in too!
So, why does D&D’s randomly generated avatar change from comment thread to comment thread? I don’t really care, but it’s the most interesting thing about his little appearances here.
Ladies and Gentlemen, how much am I bid for Death and Destruction? The bidding opens at one ring-tab and a gram of navel lint.
Shadow – As soon as I graduate, I’m going. Cat heaven!
Ahem. As Archangel Cat, I hereby bless this island and all of its cat-loving inhabitants. May the purrs be with you.
cloudiah – I have two theories: email change or IP address change.
Hypothesis: default Gravitar avatars (for people without accounts) change due to changing email addresses.
Hypothesis: default Gravitar avatars (for people without accounts) change due to changing IP addresses (outside of the local range).
Materials: several volunteers, each with at least two different email addresses (approved for posting); a proxy service; and two threads.
Method of testing: have a few people be split into three groups: control (same email/IP range), different email, and different IP (stimulated with a proxy). Everyone logs off of WordPress and makes an initial post on a thread predetermined by the researcher. This will serve as a control.
Group 1 posts in another thread predetermined by the researcher.
Group 2 changes their email address and posts in a different thread predetermined by the researcher.
Group 3 changes their IP address by using a proxy and posts in a different thread as predetermined by the researcher.
Analyze and conclude.
Two stale crumbs of parmesan cheese from off the kitchen floor. And a used Swiffer dustcloth. Not a penny more!
I bid one puff of flatulence, a napkin that’s been used as tissue paper, and whatever falls out of my keyboard the next time I turn it upside down and shake it.
I bid crashing browsers and lag.
[blockquote]
-Older women are less attractive
-Older women are less fertile
[/blockquote]
You know that’s not always true; there’s some older women who look damn good, and fertility varies from person to person. Regardless of that, what one person finds attractive, another person could find appalling. There is no universal standard of beauty.
Whoops, I got my codes mixed up. WordPress uses HTML doesn’t it?
Yeah, really. With over 7 billion people on this planet, fertility is just not that great an asset. Time to put it in perspective and scale it back, before we pollute ourselves out of existence.
BTW, let the record show that the older I get, the more younger men have been approaching me. And even more strangely, they seem to like and respect me as a person, too. And most amazing of all, they really like my intelligence! As I’ve never wanted kids and couldn’t give a rat’s ass about how fertile I appear, I’m sure I’d be mystified if I subscribed to any of those faux-scientific bumfuck theories about youth and fertility being all I ever had to offer. Fortunately, I don’t. And as the older (and creepier) dudes have largely lost interest in me, I’d characterize this situation as a distinct net gain. Nice young dude > creepy older breeder-seeker, any day.
Auva – Yep!
I confuse BBCode and HTML all the time myself, since I’ve been using BBCode for years. Yay forum code!
Which musrooms are you talking about?
I like morels, even if they are poisonous and the latest recommendation I heard was that you should eat them at all, and the number of times they should be boiled has increased over the times. Fried parasol mushroom is also tasty, even if was long time since I found any.
I’m not bidding anything for D&D. Toenail clippings, the scrapings from dinner, hairs scraped out of a brush and used kitty litter all have more value than he does, are smarter, and make better company.
I just plucked a giant dust ball out from under my dresser that’s made up of my hair and kitty hair in equal parts. I suppose I could bid that for DD, but what would I do with him? I can’t even muster up enough energy to put the ampersand in his nym.
Exactly, serrana. Dust balls are easy to get rid of. How would one dispose of something like DD? The recycling and green waste trucks wouldn’t take him, and we don’t need more landfill. You couldn’t compost him. He’d have to go to the toxic waste dump, and that’s a pain to organise.
Better for men and women to face this reality than pretend everyone is equal.
Okay, so old people are gross and useless. Obviously that goes for old men as well as old women–men get all saggy and lose fertility too, you know. So…what do we do, having faced this reality? How should we act?
For one thing, there’s no point to getting married. It’s a losing proposition; your spouse is just shedding value by the second. No matter how young a person you marry, they’re going to age, and eventually you’ll be stuck with a worthless 30-year-old. Meanwhile, you’ve spent the marriage getting older yourself, and now you’ve got no resale value. Any long-term relationship is for suckers. And yet short-term relationships aren’t going to stop you from aging either. OH MY GOD YOU’RE GETTING OLDER RIGHT NOW AREN’T YOU.
The only solution I can see is to set up a Logan’s Run situation and euthanize everyone over a certain age. They’re just taking up space. And looking weird.
Well, I’m certainly not interested in bidding for D&D, but my doggies just left two nice steaming piles of, um, bids in the backyard. So I’ll just go ahead and place that in their name.
Your gravatar changes when you change your email address. You can test this yourself: Log out and enter something different in the email field (doesn’t have to be a valid email address). The image will immediately change.
I don’t know whether it also changes with IP, but I doubt it, since anyone on a dynamic IP would then see their gravatar randomly change from time to time.
Shaenon: Let’s go whole-hog sci-fi dystopia, then–we can use the euthanized elderly to make Soylent Green.