Categories
a woman is always to blame evil old ladies evil sexy ladies evil women marriage strike men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA oppressed white men patriarchy playing the victim reactionary bullshit

Dalrock on why men should avoid women who’ve wasted “a lot of courtship” and “used up their most attractive/fertile years.”

Woman with surplus courtship
Woman with surplus courtship

Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.

Here are a few of them:

Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP).  This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.

Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.

As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process.  However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.

Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.

But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!

Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.

He needs to manage risk vs reward.  When courting, there are two fundamental risks.  These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.

So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!

For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important.  The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.

Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.

Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.

This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”

And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”

That Churchill, what a card!

Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married;  unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.

Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)

They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …

Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma;  older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.

Well, you could always marry a dude.

There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.

Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”

The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.

Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?

Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.

But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage.  For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.

That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?

As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:

fig_19_series_23_no_22_p_27

But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).

1.6K Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
fromafar2013
9 years ago

Kirby has also been very kind in her responses to me. We are not talking over each other. So I am treating her a little special, trying to be very honest about her questions. I’m going to further guess that is ALSO what women want.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll77hgyIZR1qb11f6.gif

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Kirby has also been very kind in her his responses to me.

Fixed that for you. I’m a dude, dude, which you would know if you had caught my early objection to your generalization that all men want their wives to submit to them.

I’ve been nothing but kind to all of you since I’ve posted here. I have had not one bad thing to say to any of you. You have seen no personal attacks from me.

And don’t start sealioning now. Your insistence that women must submit to their husbands and that men can only love through sex, and your refusal to actually listen to the women you’re preaching at are just as rude as any rude or terse language. Specifically, your conception of manhood and husbandhood is personally offensive to me, and all the lovely tone in the world can’t cover the stench.

We’re being civil towards you at best, and honestly that’s more than you deserve until you actually start actually listening to us.

isidore13
isidore13
9 years ago

Finally, you still haven’t answered how it benefits women to submit to men.

katz
9 years ago

A domineering guy who claims he knows what women want while ignoring everything women say, denies that love exists, demands that his every whim be obeyed, and thinks he has a right to rape people? Can’t imagine why the ladies aren’t lining up for this one. It must be because feminism is destroying western society.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

“everyone is miserable”

I’m not. If anything I’m annoyingly chirpy.

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

innocentbystanderboston | April 21, 2015 at 6:29 pm
MRAs know exactly what women want. We listen. We even want to give it to you. We want to give our wives all that we have. I give my wife whatever she wants. But largely, what women want is for men to tell them what to do. Women are going to submit. They should be submitting to their husbands.

I can’t parse all the bullshit in this paragraph. My brain is just full of fuck right now.

“We know what you want, because we told you what you want! You want to submit to me and my almighty penis! I know you said that isn’t what you want at all, but I didn’t tell you you wanted something else, so it doesn’t count!”

I’ve been nothing but kind to all of you since I’ve posted here. I have had not one bad thing to say to any of you. You have seen no personal attacks from me. I have only attacked feminism, not any of you personally, not once. I’m going to guess that you like that, that you WANT that.

“I only came in here and told you all you need to accept my religion and that you need to submit to your husbands! And I said that he only shows love through sex, and you’re all just gold-digging whores for marrying them! And you’re destroying society!”

Kirby has also been very kind in her responses to me. We are not talking over each other. So I am treating her a little special, trying to be very honest about her questions. I’m going to further guess that is ALSO what women want.

Kirby, do you want to tell him about your maleness, or should I?

Seriously, why don’t you all try switching sides for a little while and embrace the patriarchy? Just give a chance, submit to your husbands. Men have been forced (by government authority) to give feminism a chance for the last 40 years and it has been an epic disaster, everyone is miserable. Can we please dispose of something so harmful to society?

“Why can’t you just do what we want for once?! Never mind the fact that women have been doing it for centuries before this moment, but why can’t we go back to that?! I liked it better when I didn’t have to tell you to obey me!

You meanie feminists and your chokehold on our government have been forcing me to treat you like people instead of my personal house-slave for forty years and it’s so awful! Everyone (who is important. I mean men as a monolithic whole because I can’t wrap my head around men being into feminism.) is so miserable! Society is degrading as we speak! What next?! Women will make their own money and not want to marry or have kids?! THE END TIMES ARE UPON US!”

innocentbystanderboston

fromafar,

Why do so many LGBT+ people dream about this very day (getting married)?

Because you want a society that tolerates same-s-x partnerships to accept it as equal to marriage.

It isn’t the same. So sorry.

Society has been tolerating men living with men (and women with women) for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years. But what you can’t get (and you wont get) is a society that equates that with marriage. That is because it can’t possibly be marriage. And why? You are both men OR you are both women. All the difficulty associated with living with a member of the opposite s-x (for 60+ years or whatever it is) you don’t have to deal with that. So instead of getting what you want you try to force it on people who don’t accept your relationship by government authority. You get secular government involved and try to make me accept something by pointing a gun at me. Once again, just because I tolerate your living situation, it doesn’t mean I have to accept it. It’s not marriage. It never was. Its never going to be.

As Jeremy Irons said, if you accept the premise that a man could marry another man then he should be able to marry his son. Those were his words, google it, find the discussion on youtube its right there. And his point is a valid one, he would marry his son so that his son could inherit his entire estate. This is where we wind up through the looking glass.

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

And lookit the homophobia and slippery slope on this bastard!

katz
9 years ago

Given the canned nature of his posts and the inability of his reptile brain to respond to information he didn’t expect, I’m guessing he’s ignoring most people’s replies because he is literally incapable of thinking of something to say that wasn’t in whatever knockoff of Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood he’s getting his ideas from.

katz
9 years ago

Also, -4

isidore13
isidore13
9 years ago

Yeah, I mean it’s not like acceptance of LGBT marriage is actually growing or anything like that. I’m at the point of hilarity and also back to pity now. What an awful world bystander lives in. Glad I don’t live in that world.

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
9 years ago

I think he wants to stop people from marrying because that’s what I’m getting out of this. He wants to abolish marriage by describing it as women submitting to men.

I get now, I get it!

He wants women NOT to be subservient to men by NOT MARRYING and having lots of babies out of wedlock! That’s is the only way this shit makes any sense.

contrapangloss
contrapangloss
9 years ago

“I’ve been nothing but nice to you people”

…uh, huh.

Seriously, I’ve dealt with people with BAC of above .3 in the dead of night who were more polite and reasonable than this guy. Actually, all of the people who were heavily intoxicated that I’ve ever transported have been more polite and reasonable than this guy.

Well… except for the dude who liked calling us for help and then yelling “F U GUYS!” the instant we got on scene.

… on second thought, “FUGUYS” guy was still more reasonable.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Society has been tolerating men living with men (and women with women) for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years. But what you can’t get (and you wont get) is a society that equates that with marriage.

He says less than a few months before the Supreme Court of the United States is almost assuredly going to rule that marriage should be available to homosexual couples as well, and in a world where 17 countries allow it as of the beginning of 2015 (from wikipedia).

sparky
sparky
9 years ago

I’m going to come right out and say this, IBB: You are a terrible human being. Your complete lack of compassion and your bullheaded insistence that you know what othe people are thinking and feeling proves that. I’m going to quote katz because she summarize your time here the best:

A domineering guy who claims he knows what women want while ignoring everything women say, denies that love exists, demands that his every whim be obeyed, and thinks he has a right to rape people? Can’t imagine why the ladies aren’t lining up for this one. It must be because feminism is destroying western society.

That’s who you are, IBB. It’s laughable that you’re complaining about being treated rudely when you’ve treated us with nothing but unrelenting contempt.

You really need to rethink your life-choices, dude. And maybe read the Bible some more. I have a feeling Jesus would not approve of what you’re doing here now.

fromafar2013
9 years ago

You get secular government involved and try to make me accept something by pointing a gun at me.

Oh no! I’m not a proponent of gun violence at all. I’m so sorry that the government pointed a gun at you because I dated a girl in college long enough to contemplate marrying her. My bad. I’ll phone them up not to correct this grievous violation of your basic human rights.

It’s not marriage. It never was. Its never going to be.

See you in June!
comment image

katz
9 years ago

Because you want a society that tolerates same-s-x partnerships to accept it as equal to marriage.

Right, but according to you, all women want to be given away to men so they can be subservient, and all men want to be domineering rapists. Your worldview has no explanation for why gays and lesbians exist, or any of the millions of other people living happy non-complementarian lifestyles.

But you are just going to ignore this post as you have ignored every other post that your extremely narrow views can’t explain.

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

So, on topic: I was fiddling with my Mii settings on my 3DS, and you can have a choice of “life goals” from a list of choices that Nintendo provides (to prevent anyone from being obscene).

Imagine how giddy I was when I saw the “To become a witch!” option. So, my Mii (and myself) both wish to become witches.

So, that evangelical fellow who said that feminism drives women to lesbianism, witchcraft, leaving their husbands and destroying capitalism is proven right yet again.

I’m just going to sit here and drink my iced tea and think about witchcraft and kissing women now. And all the things I’m going to do with my future earnings instead of spending them on offspring.

Because fuck IBB.

I’m going to be extra witchy and queer today out of spite.

katz
9 years ago

You really need to rethink your life-choices, dude. And maybe read the Bible some more. I have a feeling Jesus would not approve of what you’re doing here now.

http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e4/50/82/e45082c98ef0db85f5ac8beacee0c04b.jpg

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ Paradoxical Intention

Does St Buryan mean anything to you by any chance ?

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

@Alan: Not really no. I had to Google it to figure out who she was. XD

Not sure why you brought her up though. Unless you meant the location?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

I’m still waiting for the penny to drop on IBB misgendering me… Is he going to take me more seriously because I have a penis, or less seriously because I can’t be condescended to and “treated a bit special” anymore?

innocentbystanderboston

Kirby,

I get it you are a dude. Mea culpa. But I listened to you.

We’re being civil towards you at best, and honestly that’s more than you deserve until you actually start actually listening to us.

Some of you are being civil. Some are being rude. But yes I have been listening to you.

isadore,

Finally, you still haven’t answered how it benefits women to submit to men.

Because when she does, a woman is going with her natural instincts. A man leads, and she follows, the “dance.” Men instictively protect and provide for women. Women instinctively submit to men. It is instanct, something God gave to each of us. To go out of your way and NOT do this (for whatever reason), can create a very frustrated, angry person is not happy and is looking for a way to BE happy.

Let me spin this around a bit, how many of you read any of that 50 Shades of Grey nonsense? How many of you watched that movie? Disclaimer, I did not watch the movie. But I know what its about. She is submitting hypergamously to a 27 year old billionaire. Whatever he wants to do to her, she submits. Anything. Everything. S&M if he wants it. And opening weekend, it set a box office record. This mommy-p-rn was the biggest selling series of books for a couple years running, many many millions in print. And why? It was all about submission, ultimately what women want to do for men. And lately (because of feminism and fear of “marital rape”) wives are finding it pretty hard to get their husbands to be alpha around them. That is the result of your feminist imperative.

I am saying she should be submitting to her husband. God knows she is going to submit. That is instinctive for a woman. So for Genesis 3:16, He is just saying submit to your husband. She wants to submit to a man. Why is submitting to your husband so hard to do?

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

Irritable bowel boy,

First of all, you don’t get to define love for everybody. Stop universalizing your own preferences. You are not a special snowflake.

Secondly, the percentage of adults who are currently married is not the same as the percentage of adults who will marry. In fact, given the legalization of same sex marriage in so many states, that number might go up next census. People are marrying later than they used to. If you want divorce rates to go down, that’s a good thing because statistically, young marriages are more likely to end in divorce. You’re just providing a statistic with no context. People here are too smart to fall for that.

contrapangloss
contrapangloss
9 years ago

-6