Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.
Here are a few of them:
Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP). This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.
Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.
As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process. However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.
Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.
But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!
Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.
He needs to manage risk vs reward. When courting, there are two fundamental risks. These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.
So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!
For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important. The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.
Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.
Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.
This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”
And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”
That Churchill, what a card!
Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married; unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.
Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)
They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …
Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma; older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.
Well, you could always marry a dude.
There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.
Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”
The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.
Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?
Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.
But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage. For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.
That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?
As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:
But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).
Oh I see… so it is in fact a totally made-up term so men can control women and the children women produce, at heart.
Oh, and I’d like to add: The fact that you think that feminists need to concern ourselves with what men want is fucking delusional.
We’re not here to ask for permission to be treated like people.
Fuck right off.
*crowd groans*
Announcer voice 1: Looks like he wasn’t able to stick that flounce. Tough one.
Announcer voice 2: Right, Bob. The judges are going to penalize him heavily on that one. Let’s see if he comes back for more in round two.
Wow, that flounce stuck for all of 10 minutes… I’m impressed!
(not really)
I’m a bastard. Some of my cousins are bastards, my nieces and nephews are bastards.
Hell, aren’t we all bastards?
BASTARDS FOR EVERYONE!
*confetti*
Oh, of course IBB doesn’t “believe” in marital rape. And of course he thinks children born to parents who aren’t married are “illegitimate.” And of course he thinks feminism’s main concern should be the desires of men. And of course he thinks there’s some kind of “marriage strike” and that men are “going there own way” in droves despite all evidence to the contrary. And of course he’s ignoring all the posters who aren’t giving him the answers he wants.
Of course.
Katz,
I didn’t flounce off. I’m just very busy at work is all. But Kirby sincerely answered my question and patriarcal male that I am, I don’t want to be rude. 🙂
Kirby,
Okay got it.
This is even simpler, obey your husband. S-x him, all the time, whenever he wants it. Everyday, five times a day, whatever he wants. Submit. You do that and marital rape is an impossibility.
Bonus red pill question from the MRA for the feminists here who simply can’t. Get. Past. Submitting. A father gives away his daughter to the son-in-law in marriage, he physcially hands her over to the young man and walks away. What is that all about and why do so many girls dream about this very moment, such a patriarical rite of passage?
Net score: 0
Isidore, pretty much.
Although, kind of more of a “Let’s punish kids for their parents actions for all time, because we can and that totally seems legitimate…” thing.
In areas where bastardry laws were more strict, young dads couldn’t claim their ‘wild oats’ even if they wanted to.
Still, way more of a negative side for women and especially the poor ‘bastard’ kids themselves.
Why are women submitting to men?
Are we going to discuss Indian Penal Law now? That’s quite a bit off-topic, even for a troll. “Anti-dowry” is not a made up term, except in the sense that all terms were at one point made up by somebody.
By which I mean, why should women submit to men? The benefit to women is what? God, it’s like you MRAs just never think about what WOMEN want.
Michael Pearl? Is that you?
And of course irritablebowelsyndrome here is a rape apologizing asshole. Of course he is.
IBB, you do understand that not all women dream of the big fairytale wedding, right? And those that do really aren’t getting all starry-eyed about being handed over by their fathers to their husbands like a piece of property, right? You do understand all that dreaming is about romance and an awesome dress and a big party and all that jazz, right?
What am I saying? You can’t grasp a simple concept like love. Of course you don’t understand.
This guy is hilarious in n extremely unfunny way. “Oh my goodness, what is this absurd idea you call ‘marital rape’? Why it’s like ‘day night!’ What possible coherent definition could you possibly ascribe to this bizarre notion of ‘marital rape’?
… Oh, it’s rape in a marriage. Right. Well, if you just had no autonomy or desire, then there would never be an issue with consent, so there.”
@contra, it sounds awful, and I get why in the past that was bad, but can bystander explain why, in 2015, it even matters? And bonus, can zie do it… without referencing race?! *gasps*
@Sparky
I know I don’t. All that money being wasted could go to important things, like food, shelter, and video games.
Sooooo many video games.
blech, it’s been a long day, excuse my typos and formatting everyone.
isadore,
MRAs know exactly what women want. We listen. We even want to give it to you. We want to give our wives all that we have. I give my wife whatever she wants. But largely, what women want is for men to tell them what to do. Women are going to submit. They should be submitting to their husbands.
I’ve been nothing but kind to all of you since I’ve posted here. I have had not one bad thing to say to any of you. You have seen no personal attacks from me. I have only attacked feminism, not any of you personally, not once. I’m going to guess that you like that, that you WANT that.
Kirby has also been very kind in her responses to me. We are not talking over each other. So I am treating her a little special, trying to be very honest about her questions. I’m going to further guess that is ALSO what women want.
Seriously, why don’t you all try switching sides for a little while and embrace the patriarchy? Just give a chance, submit to your husbands. Men have been forced (by government authority) to give feminism a chance for the last 40 years and it has been an epic disaster, everyone is miserable. Can we please dispose of something so harmful to society?
I’ve got a better question!
Why do so many LGBT+ people dream about this very day (getting married)?
In fact the last, oh, every wedding I’ve ever been to, didn’t have anyone handing over anyone like chattel. There was also no mentioning of obey or serve or any of that. There were fancy outfits, decorations, food, cake, music, grandpa dancing to the chicken dance with all the kids, and much merry making. Everyone had a good time. It’s almost like weddings are a celebration of some sort! Must be some nefarious feminist conspiracy.
Isidore, it’s on the back pages. He brought up faithiness, dropped a quarter of a verse from Genisis about Eve being ruled by Adam, and has refused to let it go and ignored other folks (who are christian) who did some scriptural interpretation.
Basically, he’s just wearing his own posterior as a hat.
Fuck. You. And. Your. Victim. Blaming. Bullshit.
How fucking dare you walk in here and spew this bullshit. WOMEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO AND MEN SHOULD LEARN TO FUCKING ACCEPT IT. Just like if a man doesn’t want to have sex, a woman shouldn’t fucking force him to simply because she wants it. EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY NO TO SEX WITH ANYONE.
A person’s body is THEIRS. It doesn’t belong to their fucking spouse, it doesn’t belong to God, it. Is. THEIRS.
How about husbands respect their fucking wives and their right to not want sex?
How hard is that for you and your ilk to understand? Get the fuck out of here with your bullshit, you absolute fucking troll.
Maybe we “can’t get past submitting” because we’re not your fucking property, you sexist puddle of radioactive ooze.
We’re fucking PEOPLE. We’re not your fucking servants simply because you put a ring on it. We’re not your property, we’re not your personal sex toys. We’re people who deserve to be treated with the same respect as other people.
Because we still cling to old ceremonies because people like them and don’t want to change? Because women used to belong to their fathers until they were handed over to their husbands, and now it’s more of just a gesture now? Because some women really love their fathers and would still very much like to do this, despite the fact that they understand why it was done in the olden days, and don’t subscribe to that train of thought?
Here’s some questions for you in return: How many women do you think actually go for this now-a-days? What if the mother is chosen to hand off her daughter instead? What if the daughter asks both her parents to hand her off? What if the daughter doesn’t want to be handed off? What if she’s handed off by an entire group?
You DO realize that there is no set-in-stone way of doing this, and thus your little “gotcha” is bullshit, right?
YOU are miserable, patriarchy forcing you to live in what you describe as a money for sex exchange with a woman you don’t respect, so you assume everyone here who says they are happy and fulfilled and loved and loving are lying, I guess? Because if you’re miserable, obviously everyone else must be too.
Also you claim to listen, so why aren’t you listening to women here who say they do not want to submit?
OK
Quick Geek Test……
http://savageminds.org/wp-content/image-upload/kirk-drill-thrall-3.jpg