Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.
Here are a few of them:
Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP). This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.
Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.
As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process. However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.
Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.
But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!
Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.
He needs to manage risk vs reward. When courting, there are two fundamental risks. These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.
So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!
For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important. The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.
Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.
Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.
This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”
And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”
That Churchill, what a card!
Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married; unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.
Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)
They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …
Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma; older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.
Well, you could always marry a dude.
There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.
Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”
The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.
Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?
Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.
But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage. For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.
That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?
As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:
But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).
“dynamite propelled a metal spike through his head ”
Ooh, a Phineas Gage reference. Noce one!
“Owe no one anything, except to sex each other, for the one who sexes another has fulfilled the law.”–Romans 13:8
(sounds like the plot of a bad smut fic tbh…)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall sex your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, sex your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you sex those who sex you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”–Matthew 5:43-48
“Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who sexes me. And he who sexes me will be sexed by my Father, and I will sex him and manifest myself to him.” Judas said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” Jesus answered him, “If anyone sexes me, he will keep my word, and my Father will sex him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not sex me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.”–John 14:21-24
This is FUN!
We sex because he first sexed us. If anyone says, “I sex God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not sex his brother, whom he has seen, cannot sex God, whom he has not seen. – 1 John 4:19-20
Obviously what’s being said here is that if a woman isn’t willing to submit, she shouldn’t marry. That means she’s free to pursue her own life and her own goals, maybe get a boyfriend and kids together with him. They can live together, pay bills together, and raise children all without getting married and having her submit to him.
Sounds good. My sister and a couple of my cousins have the same set up. No one has to submit to anyone and it’s great. Hell, why the fuck get married anyway? Fuck that noise. Just get a live in girlfriend/boyfriend and life is golden.
Christianity is a hell of a lot more liberal than I thought!
Hell, I but that setup has lots of cunnilingus, fellatio, anal, hand jobs, fingering, and SEX.
SO MUCH FUCKING SEX. SEX ALL THE FUCKING TIME. FUCKING AROUND THE CLOCK WITH
SEX
SEX
SEX
SEX
SEX
Not this biblical “s-x”, whatever that is. I think it involves squirting semen up a woman’s VAGINA without any PENILE (that is PENIS) penetration. Sounds boring, would rather have out of martials than in-martials, IMO.
Oh, and the non-marriage set up would have lots of dildos, fleshlights, vibrators, prostate massagers, French ticklers, gimp masks, fuzzy handcuffs, pegging and
SEX
SEX
SEX
SEX
SEX!!!
SEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEXSEX
(It just so fucking annoying to me that censored “s-x”, so I’m sorry for the block of it, but, seriously. “S-x”. Really? REALLY?)
@Thalia “Men who stay with their terminally ill wives and care for them and grieve for them are presumably not just in it for the sex”
I guess he could be staying with her cause if he goes through the motions he’ll get to own her in the afterlife too?
(I need to stop trying to imagine what these people think like, it makes me queasy)
It was worth 27 points on the triple word score but he didn’t have an E, so give him a break!
@Alan Robertshaw
Thanks! His was a pretty interesting case, wasn’t it?
Oooohhhh, he was looking for “money” as the answer to the question he asked.
Uhmmm, I make more money than my future husband, in a career I like significantly better than he likes his. I have less debt. I own my own home, have a nice car that I bought myself… If we combined incomes (which we probably aren’t going to do completely, even post marriage because student loans are the DEVIL), he’d have less financial stress. I would too, honestly, especially if we sold one of our houses (or both) and paid off some student loans with the profit, moved in together, shared utilities and other living expenses etc. but the effect would be more pronounced for him.
But that’s not why we’re getting married. Does marriage make adulting easier? Hell yes! It can also help soften the blow to emergency situations, like a medical emergency or getting laid off (why do you think us queer folk have been fighting for the right to it?) Is it mandatory? Nooooo….
It’s almost like we also love each other, or something.
@Spindrift:
Yeah… don’t try to guess what they’re thinking if you don’t want to be correct. I’ve learned that the hard way.
I also applaud the Phineas Gage reference.
@ Spindrift
Indeed. I remember when I first heard about this at a lecture. I remember the lecturer saying something along the lines of:
“After having the metal spike rammed through his face and head people noticed Mr Gage was not as cheerful as he once was”
Er, well……..
Look at all the responses! I don’t have that kind of time to get to all of them, so sorry.
Spendthrift,
marital rape
What is that? I know what rape is. I know what marriage is. What is “marital rape” exactly and objectively other than a made up terminology to be whatever feminists want it to be?
Kirby,
I’m sure they are. And their children are being born illegitimately. And I certainly hope none of you think this is a great thing. Mass illegitimacy, all you get is Detroit, Camden, and Ferguson. Are those locations of “rising cohabitation” wonderful beacons of your feminist utopia? Is this progress Kirby?
Men are going their own way Kirby. Inertia is really setting in on this marriage strike (and its worse than a strike) …
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/more-ominous-than-a-strike/
…and I think that is because people aren’t really having honest conversations about why men refuse to marry. It seems all society wants to do is shame men into “manning up” and getting married without offering even one good reason. Just three weeks ago, one of our help desk kids told me that no way is he ever going to marry his girlfriend (just using her for s-x) and its not because he is down on the whole marriage thing. Its instead because she has too much credit card debt and student loans. He told me she wants to get married (which is why I hope she dumps him for wasting her time) but he wont because he knows he’ll be responsible for all her debt. He only wants to marry a girl without the anti-dowry.
You feminists want a nice made up term that goes along with “marital rape”, how about “anti-dowry?” Do any of you know what that is? Do any of you even care? I doubt you care. But maybe you will now.
See the ultimate problem with feminism in parallel to it being mutually exclusive of Christianity is that feminism never concerns itself with what men want. It is only about a tiny subset of disenfranchised women and what they can get FROM men by use of government authority. Feminism is very expensive. Without a first world government providing massive safety nets, there can be no real feminism. A patriarical society produces massive amounts of wealth for women whereas a feminist centric society can only be a parasite upon it.
I have to get back to work. Everyone have a good night. And please, do reconsider feminism. It is really damaging our society.
And so, predictably, you have chosen to ignore all the ones saying “I love my husband.”
Well. We don’t often get a puddle of racist, rape-apologetic diarhea alongside our troll flounces. Thanks for that, ibb.
@Katz,
And all the ones that legitimately questioned his theology… or questioned why non-religious folks should be beholden to his theology.
I’m sorry, can you clarify what, exactly, “illegitimacy” is? It sounds like a made-up term that means whatever misogynist control freaks want it to mean.
I’d give the flounce a 4 for being impressive in its total wrongness.
I also kind of want to give it a 1 though, for sheer length and tediousness. I’m torn.
Anyone else want to weigh in?
Seriously Kirby, I have absolutely no idea what marital rape is. That is like calling this time of day “night day.” It makes about as much sense as unicorns farting rainbows. But I’m sure to feminists who can’t get past the perfect simplicity of Genesis 3:16, it makes perfect sense.
Pbbbbt. -2 for not sticking the flounce. Net score: 2.
@ibb:
Alright, here is a definition. You know what rape is, right? Something along the lines of sex without consent? And you know what marriage is, right? Marital rape is rape by someone you are married to. Simple.
Seriously bystander, I have absolutely no idea what illegitimacy is. That is like calling this time of day ‘orange sky’. It makes about as much sense as… well, the rest of what you said. So I guess asking you to explain it, or why it’s bad, is pointless?
Oooohhhh, I smell a racist!
Why is it that all the bigotry comes in one all inclusive package? What if I can’t afford trim level 4? What if I just want trim level 1 misogyny and bible thumping added in? Why do I have to automatically upgrade to trim 4 and get racism too? And to get the leather seats I have to go full Touring. It’s just not fair.
“LGBTQA+ rights advocates never concern themselves with what straight people want!”
“Civil Rights advocates never concern themselves with what white people want!”
“Trans activists never concern themselves with what cisgendered people want!”
Because feminism isn’t for men, cupcake.
So sorry to drop that truth on you, but it’s true.
Men can benefit from feminism, but it’s not centered around men. Never has been, never should be. It’s about women. Period.
Also, marital rape is when someone who’s married to someone else rapes them. Because you can not want to have sex even if you’re married to a person. And if your spouse forces you to have sex anyways, that’s still rape.
Because everyone has this wonderful thing called Bodily Autonomy. Meaning: Your body is yours, and no one can use it without your permission. Especially not your spouse.
But you wouldn’t care about that, considering your stance on marriage being “obedience from women” and “men show love through sex”.
Seriously, get the fuck out of here with your sexist, narrow-minded, man and woman hating bullshit, and don’t come back. You’re sincerely making me question my stance on “no curses”.
@katz
That is NOT how we play Scrabble! The Rule Book state it as so and anyone who perverts these Rules is NOT a Scrabble player!
Deviant.
@isidore
“illegitimacy” is an archaic term for children who are the offspring of an unwed couple, whether it be wedlock or because the dad or mom was married to someone else and having an affair.
“Bastard” was synonymous.
Illegitimate or bastard sons were excluded from inheriting their father’s property and not allowed the father’s name. Bastard daughters couldn’t really inherit anyway, so there were fewer statutes about them. Being a bastard (being illegitimate) kind of stunk.
Some laws had loopholes so an illegitimate child could be ‘recognized’ by the father, but archaic laws are archaic.