Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.
Here are a few of them:
Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP). This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.
Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.
As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process. However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.
Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.
But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!
Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.
He needs to manage risk vs reward. When courting, there are two fundamental risks. These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.
So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!
For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important. The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.
Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.
Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.
This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”
And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”
That Churchill, what a card!
Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married; unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.
Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)
They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …
Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma; older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.
Well, you could always marry a dude.
There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.
Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”
The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.
Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?
Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.
But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage. For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.
That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?
As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:
But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).
“I do! My kids are mostly entertaining and interesting now, so it was worth the wait, but the early years were truly hellish, and that’s with both parents taking on a fair chunk of the workload.”
I keep hearing that and it’s really solidifying my desire to adopt an older child instead of having a baby. I’ve got this silly fantasy about adopting an LGBT youth and rescuing them from ‘pray the gay away’ fundie would be adopters. But seriously, I’d be thrilled with any kid. I just think I’ll skip the poopy diapers and screaming at 2 am for no reason every night parts.
What did I miss?
I do! My kids are mostly entertaining and interesting now, so it was worth the wait, but the early years were truly hellish, and that’s with both parents taking on a fair chunk of the workload.
Yeah, my husband was (and is) a great partner in parenting and that shit was STILL hard! Mine are 8, 7, 5, and 4 now, so hardly what you’d call self-sufficient yet, but they all wipe their own butts and sleep all night, and most of them can even put their own pants and fix their own sandwiches. Progress!
fromafar, I think that’s a great idea. If kids were born with the skills of a 5-year old I’d have another half dozen. I can’t do babyhood again, though– I barely even remember my 20s ’cause it’s mostly a sleep deprived blur. 😀
fromafar2013,
Do it!
LGBT kids do not get treated well in the system. Alot of foster parents are conservative religious folks ’round these parts. They tend to either want to “fix” the kids or not deal with them at all. Even if they are adopted from care young, it is not unheard of for them to be mistreated or surrendered again when they are old enough to come out. It is rough to deal with a teen that has been through some terrible shit and not every teen the state sends you will be a good match for your home. You have to learn to say, “No” when you have doubts. But, once you find your feet and if you have the patience and fortitude, you might fall in love. There are risks. You can be overwhelmed or plain ‘ol heartbroken. You might even get hit. Several teens have stopped by here on their way someplace else and I think of all of them often. There are a few in particular that I still hope I will get to see again one day. There are some I wish could have stayed, but it was not to be.
I don’t like to keep babies. I’m not a baby kinda gal. I like to sniff their heads and play with their adorable little toes, but there is so much more than that in caring for a baby. I remember the days of wearing cracker crumbs in my hair and wiping a snotty nose with the hem of my skirt in public and not giving any fucks because it was either that or watch it drip. Do you know what happens when snot gets too close to a baby or toddler’s upper lip? *shudders*
I don’t think I have it in me to go through that full time again. Meanwhile, I know people who’ve done it several times and still love it. To each their own.
[edited by df]
If you’re not naturally outgoing, I recommend “Quiet: The power of introverts in a world that can’t stop talking” by Susan Cain. Because western society tells us that we should be socially interacting all the time and for lots of us, that’s not who we are. And not who we should be.
In my twenties, I used to keep relationships going well past the point of no recovery, but I was far more ruthless once I turned thirty – and it was because I dumped someone immediately once I’d turned up ironclad proof that she’d lied to me about something important that I met my wife in the first place.
During an evening of drunken post-breakup self-pity I placed an ad on a dating site, and she was just about to give up on online dating altogether after a handful of entertaining but unfulfilling dates, but was intrigued by something I wrote in my ad (although naturally neither of us can remember what) and replied. So the odds against us meeting were pretty astronomical (we lived seventy miles apart and had no social circles and few interests in common), and we almost certainly wouldn’t have done so had I tried to keep the other relationship going. So although it was a calamitous disaster from the get-go, I’m inordinately grateful to my ex, and my children have even more reason to be.
Qwerty,
Let me add my voice to the “you aren’t dumb” chorus.
I know firsthand the shock of learning from the Internet that my BF wasn’t who I thought he was. It’s terrible. I really feel for you. But important to remember we aren’t the problem; they are.
Hugs are offered if wanted, and I hope you find this community welcoming.
Hi qwerty, welcome and thanks for the lowdown on the low one. N’thing the “you’re not dumb and you dodged a bullet” comments!
It says something about the troll quality when a creep like Mikey is more entertaining than the others, with his ragespittle and SPINSTERS! The two clogging up the other threads are just gross and I’d really like to see them banned.
I am wondering if Mikey is ever going come back after this big reveal.
I hope he does. It should funny.
Oh boy, the ex turning out to not be who you thought…arresting while engaging in not-so-sexy times with a teenager in a park (at night, random patrol caught them, pants down, literally). Pedophila, it’s what’s for entitled asshole narcissists. And this was into the gaslighting, so I didn’t run >.<
Qwerty, you have the sense to see that Mickey here is not a good person and run, that makes you smarter than I was!
As for adopting an older child — they tend to sorta get stuck in the system, most people want healthy (white) babies, not an older kid who may have emotional issues or other qualities making them not the perfect shiny baby they want. Me, if I'm ever stable enough for it to be wise, I'd adopt, and be fine with the kids with emotional issues, so long as they're more or less non-violent (I'm tiny, I don't do well with being hit) So yeah, if your life circumstances permit it, I think it's a great idea — and I had a sorta GF who aged out while still in a group home, I think more than anything she just wanted someone who wouldn't send her back.
It’ sysadminIt’s sad that the simple act of not returning the child/teen means so much.I think autocorrect has been assimilated and is having a cranky that no one is writing anything. Theme of the month is disability, personal stories are just fine — if you want to write something and don’t have Borg back end access clicky my nym and use the contact form and I’ll get you set up.
@Qwerty, I’m so sorry that things are hard right now, but you are awesome. Also, welcome.
@Michael
http://youtu.be/JnPCqGIOhzY
To be clear, I am laughing at the pathetic Mikey, NOT the shitty things he has done.
On the bright side, qwerty, you’re poised to do one of those epic online breakups.
Creeps like Michael prey on the sympathies of nice women – I mean truly nice women. I hardly think there is anything scummier than taking advantage of someone’s good heart. I’m so sorry, Qwerty.
Qwerty, if you don’t mind, do you know if he really has a law career? If so I’m very alarmed.
if you don’t mind answering, that is. Please don’t feel like you have to answer anything yo don’t want to.
He has a law degree? How the hell did he get that? He can’t even construct a coherent sentence. The judges must snicker when they see him.
Imagine Mikey in court. Oy.
“Y’ronor this defendant cannot be believed because she is a USED UP SLUT MISERABLE SPINSTER and she’s over 30!!!1!!!eleventy! She tried to TRICK my client into MARRIAGE because he lives DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH!”
” … Case dismissed.”
Makes sense that he works for himself, though. Hard to imagine anyone else wanting him to work for them.
Sweet honey in the rock, the rabbit hole goes deeper than I ever expected. I almost hope that Michael is reading all this.
Also, regarding adoption and ages, both our sons were five when we met them. Curiously, the eldest was born eight months after our first (non-legal) wedding. We missed out on toilet training, cradle cap, teething, all of that. Unfortunately, the birth parents didn’t do such a good job of any of it, or much of anything else either. They’ve both been in therapy since we adopted them – thanks, MediCal! Your tax dollars at work. Although we did take care of the elder son’s orthodontics.
Then again he could present himself as perfectly nice and normal in meatspace. What do I know.
Didn’t Ted Bundy have a law degree?
I really am so sorry Qwerty, this must be horrible. We’ve read all your links, wow, just wow!
Re Mikey’s lawyerdom, I’m thinking Lionel Hutz a la ‘The Simpsons’:
http://youtu.be/NL_pRiXov7Q
That clip works on two levels. 🙂
Or perhaps ‘Fake Dr’ Gillian Mckeith:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2007/feb/12/advertising.food