Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.
Here are a few of them:
Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP). This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.
Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.
As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process. However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.
Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.
But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!
Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.
He needs to manage risk vs reward. When courting, there are two fundamental risks. These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.
So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!
For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important. The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.
Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.
Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.
This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”
And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”
That Churchill, what a card!
Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married; unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.
Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)
They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …
Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma; older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.
Well, you could always marry a dude.
There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.
Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”
The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.
Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?
Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.
But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage. For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.
That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?
As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:
But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).
Ahem.
Well, ladies? What’s it gonna be? Pursue your education, career goals, personal satisfaction and date around until you find someone you’d actually care to live with? Or throw it all away at an early age on some schmuck who’s only gonna divorce you anyway?
For someone who talks a lot about being a “quality” man (a strangely amorphous creature, aside from being a fucking bigot and throwing money around like it’s going out of style), Mikey is tellingly silent about the importance of a good RELATIONSHIP…which consists of a lot more than just breeding while your eggs are hot.
I’m not sure why I should be listening to any of these dudes, it doesn’t matter whose advice I follow, ONE DAY I will be 30, 32,35, whatever the magical cut off for men to find me attractive and ‘valuable’ is. What difference to me does it make if the dude who dumps my hideous 30+ yr old self for a younger model is the same age as me or older than me?
Also I’m not sure why I shouldn’t date/marry people who are fun,insightful, creative, and like parties. Also why shouldn’t I go out with broke guys? I thought MRAs hated women who care about money? Like, whores and golddiggers are bad right? Should I care about the dude’s money or not? IM SO CONFUSED HERE.
I’m sorry, but I’m not sold on this stuff…
Yes, women have magical vaginas. They dispense chips. But only a finite number of chips.
Because, as we all know, love and sex can be easily commodified, and once you give away your allotment, that’s it!
My vagina is magical. Whenever I see a screeching ragemonkey of a misogynist talking it somehow manages to retreat even further inside my body and close itself up like a vault.
Okay, how do I set my magical vagina to dispense milk and cookies to all the Nice Guys™ and Quality Men™ who’ve been laying siege to it over the years?
Oh wait. What am I saying? I’m supposed to be giving out chips and cake to the Alpha Males™ from the Cock Carousel, aren’t I?
Missed the sink water thing. Maybe he lives where fraking has made the water flammable?
I know I still amaze people when I just go for the sink, they assume all of PA has that problem so Pittsburgh water must’ve been undrinkable (it isn’t, it’s just fine, other than having no water hardness to speak of which made it hell to maintain a pH in the tanks). But I keep fish, the safety of the tap water is sorta high on my concern list, and I’ve never had any that wasn’t okay (granted, one of the sinks here tests weird pH wise, idk what’s up with that, but it isn’t the sink I usually use, so whatever)
Also, yeah, living by the ocean just kinda is a thing. I suppose it might be interesting if you just moved there, but New Haven is like a mile that way and the harbor is thus right the fuck there. Now, Long Island sound is a bit gross, but it’s like “yep, the ocean is right there, your point?”
As for NC, so much yes to the idea of visiting the outer banks, loved it there (that’s actually where I fell for hermit crabs and where my ownership of assorted tanks started…nearly 20 years later I’m up from a small tank to four — 55g, 30g, 29g and the 2.5g snail tank)
And should my options ever be “alone with pets” or “marry to avoid that”…well…I do still want stingrays…
Seriously, if my choice was to have titianblue’s life or to have Michael’s life, I’d pick titianblue’s, because she seems a lot happier and more at peace with herself. There’s only so much anger and misery that an ocean view can make up for.
Oooo.. I have a oil painting on my wall of a beach at low tide (with these wonderful rocks exposed, nice bold almost abstract oil, I seem to be one of the few that love this painting, but I digress). So I have an ocean view in my living room. Which is pretty cool as I’m surrounded by bush on 2 sides.
I’d rather live in hill country and forests than by the sea (but not here, because bushfires) given the choice anyway. The whole living by the sea thing seems to presume it’s a warm/hot climate, and blow that for a game of soldiers. Only time I liked walking by the sea here was in autumn/winter.
Seconding about titianblue’s life being waaaaaay better than Mikey’s. Mine’s not that different, except no chickens; my existence here is very prosaic, but it’s far happier than Mikey’s. And that’s before counting in the Mr Kittehs factor. 😉
Cassandra — yep, and she has an undergardener! (Or is the chicken the overgardener? Please apologize to the feathered one if I’ve mistaken her role)
Also, his GF’s BMI? Something feels off, because that’s about where pecunium’s scrawny ass falls and he’s SMALL, like, lower than army BMI requirement small. Unless she’s naturally tiny, like him…there’s nothing healthy about dieting to that weight. I couldn’t do it without flat out starving myself, even when I was swimming like a fish, and I’m naturally barely into the “normal” BMI range. I have concerns in other words. I hope she’s just naturally as skinny as pecunium, and he isn’t doing any psychology shit to make her think she has to stay smaller than she naturally is.
Tangentially, Pecunium is an amazing cook, if he ever offers to feed you, take him up on the offer.
Kitteh — *dies laughing* warm? In August. Four feet of snow with last year’s blizzard. I was actually not “invited” to shovel because it would’ve been to my armpits. (Usually I have to get my brother to convince our father that he’s better suited for it, being built like a bear and not having evil joints)
Auggz — huh, I never thought of low tide as pretty, I guess I’d need to see it without being able to smell it. The smell of rotting seaweed just doesn’t come off as pretty. The tide pools are fun though, gotta get a ride to the fort once it warms up (there’s a revolutionary war fort not far from here, I have no interest in that part, but the way they built it into the shore has resulted in some easily accessible tide pools)
What struck me as odd about that was, how many people know their partner’s weight to the exact pound, especially when they’re not married or living together? I could have given you an approximate weight for most of my boyfriends who I didn’t live with, but it would have been “about 140 pounds” rather than “exactly 142 pounds”. Is this a case of assfax or does he quiz the poor woman daily and make her order salads if she’s gained a pound since the last weigh-in?
Or he made her weight up, just like the rest of her.
I can’t even estimate a person’s weight to the nearest kg. But I do love how guy clothes sizing is very consistent compared to women’s (for example, in one range I go from a 6 to a 12 in trousers/skirts, depending on the particular garment, and that is within one season).
One guy (who ended up being terrifying psychotic) got me a lacy bra and briefs for my birthday present. And they were the correct cup size as well as the right size. We had been dating for two months. It freaked me out, and also annoyed me as I had said I really wanted a detail sander. This was the guy that did stalking, etc. He was/is a white collar IT professional (programmer).
For those BMIs, would the woman still menstruate? And they’re probably cutting out food like dairy and not substituting in equivalent nutrients from other foods – hello early onset osteoporosis.
So many comments to read thru!
I have been following Michael’s story on Dickey’s blog for awhile.
Am I the only one who finds it really scary that he says he is now seeing a 23 year old?
Found an Australian weight/BMI chart for females aged 2 to 20 years: http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcsite.nsf/pages/bmi4child
Taking 107lb to be 48.5kg, you can see that by age 13 years, less than 50% of females are this weight, and by 18 years less than 25% of females are this weight.
This means that 107lb should *not* be a target weight for most of the adult female population. Disordered eating, with its physical and psychological effects, is not something to encourage.
@aug, my bad, I mispicked the word, yes I did mean psychopathic.
She is 5-7 and 107 lbs and to die for in platforms. She is model material. BTW I’m in first class back to LAX. Check my IP address David Mangina. Oh wait nevermind I’m in coach. Idiots.
Eh, some people really are naturally that thin, so I think it would be better if we didn’t assume that someone that size has an eating disorder. What weirds me out about it is more what Kiwi Girl was saying – how does he know, down to the exact pound? That’s just not something that people normally know about their partner, especially at the casual dating stage.
@cassandra, yep, which is why I said it shouldn’t be a “target weight for most of the adult female population”. With the wording I was trying to recognise that there are people who are naturally and appropriately that weight. I was thinking about tall women who are trying to diet to impossibly low weights. Perhaps I should have typed that more exactly. I certainly wasn’t trying to discourage naturally, very low underweight females from trying to forcibly put on weight.
/sigh I’m having a bad time of expressing myself at the moment.
My guess still remains that this woman is imaginary, since I don’t think Michael would be this angry if he actually was able to find himself a succession of hot young women to date.
Have a look at the Alpha Male thread – catgirl just mentioned some gross (and grossly stupid) stuff Mikey comes up with.
@ Cassandra’s kitty
She’s not imaginary…
David please advise how to upload videos ….
Argenti,
What’s the fort? Maybe I’ll check it out the next time I visit my sister.