Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.
Here are a few of them:
Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP). This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.
Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.
As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process. However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.
Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.
But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!
Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.
He needs to manage risk vs reward. When courting, there are two fundamental risks. These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.
So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!
For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important. The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.
Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.
Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.
This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”
And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”
That Churchill, what a card!
Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married; unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.
Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)
They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …
Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma; older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.
Well, you could always marry a dude.
There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.
Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”
The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.
Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?
Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.
But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage. For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.
That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?
As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:
But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).
I think my favorite part of the asshats that come here are the elaborate stories they make up that are somehow representative of all women everywhere – nay, of the very nature of women itself.
It’s like saying that chocolate is “objectively” tastier than vanilla.
Married women don’t walk dogs?
0.o
I’m doing it all wrong.
My grandmother is in her 70s and she’s as fit and sharp as ever. She recently took up rock climbing. (I know! My mind is blown too.) The woman is a dynamo. She was turning down proposals in her 60’s. She’s too independent for marriage now. She told me the last time we were on the phone that she’s the happiest she’s ever been. She loves her work, her friends and her hobbies. If she wants a lover, she’ll damn well have one. If Michael said this stuff to her she’d laugh in his face.
“I LIVE ON A BEACH. DIRECTLY ON. THE. FUCK. ING. BEACH!!!11″
Oh! Stop! My sides! Too much funny!
Well, I am a spinster and I did go to pick up a few things and I needed a few of those things for the dog. But I went to Trader Joe’s today. I wasn’t desperate for the gentleman’s attention, but he was in my way right in front of the sausages. So I did recommend a nice gluten-free hot dog to him. His doctor told him he had to eat gluten free and he thought he’d never be able to eat again. He looked totally lost. Then I pointed out the g-f hot dog buns around the corner and told him to go to the help desk and have them print him out a list of all their g-f stuff for him.
He said thanks. I said you’re welcome. I bought my “few things” and now I’ve eaten some and I’m drinking a glass of wine and worried, because my dog is shaking and I don’t think he’s cold. So we’re going to get in bed with a book.
I think that’s more how things work in the real world!
I went with Mr. HK to pick up a few things at the store, primarily because I worked from home today and needed to get away from the cats, who were being grade-A asshole cats.
I’ll give him one originality point for ranting about SPINSTERS’ dogs instead of their cats.
Ooh, bad cats. I run pointless errands when I work at home, but because of the asshole bird-who-will-not-stop-wolf-whistling! Why do people teach them how to do this!?!? (she’s a rescue)
“I do not look twice at them and see their advances as an annoyance.”
Huh… I had the exact same thought about guys like Michael.
What does this guy have against Susanna Hoffs?
eli: two of them (Lilly and Biscuit) would not stop the meowing, they were egging each other on. Then the getting on the desk/in my way started. Then it was getting into things they shouldn’t and batting it around the house. It wouldn’t end.
Normally all they do when I work from home is sleep.
I’m mildly amazed at how many people on the Internet seem to believe that not being able to spell proves that they must be right.
Mickey is a catch in the same way influenza is a catch. You feel like crap when you have it, and while it works its way out of your system, you still feel lousy. Once you’re rid of it completely, you feel great. 🙂
My contribution to society this week, an analogy.
I assume they’re the same people as the lesswrong guys who think that being badly dressed proves that you’re extra good at other things.
Because taking the five min to match means five min you aren’t finding money to donate to the singularity institute!
hellkell,
I hope they got all their mischief out of their systems!
eli: yup, they are now napping and looking like angels. Lil’ bastards.
@ David “Futile”
“Yeah, every time I go to the store it’s full of “post-wall” SPINSTERS in tight miniskirts, pushing empty carts, desperately trying to get the attention of men. “Excuse me, sir, could you tell me what kind of sausage, wink wink, might go best with my eggs, wink wink wink.””
Apparently you don’t live in Los Angeles. Not only does this happen to me it also happens to allot of other guys including friends, business associates and guys at the gym. At one point it was getting so bad I was writing a weekly “spinster report” on Dalrock.
These women smell money and confidence. Two things I have in relative abundance.
These are women who presumably wanted nothing to do with me when they were in their prime.
Now you might say, how can you assume that? Because I lived it. I was poor, in law school, living in the dorms and off campus housing without a nickel to my name. I worked a job at the college and then at the Law school for $7.50/hour. Student loans back then were really tight. There was not much spending money to go around. For dinner I would mix canned tuna with Ramen noodles and spaghetti. It got so bad at one point my friend and I used to fish for food. I remember there were days where I had nothing to eat and was drinking sink water and bumming off friends. My car was the same car from high school. It was a piece of junk but it barely got me around.
I learned that WOMEN ARE ONLY AS FAITHFUL AS THIER OPTIONS.
My mistake was being a hopeless romantic Princess Bride movie idolizer. Following the feminist code, listening and believing what women SAY rather than what they actually DO earned me this misfortune.
The facts are that today I make (last year, I do not know what my salary will be in 2014) I make $178,000.00 per year and am currently dating a 23 year old 8. But because of her age she looks like a 10 to me. She is 5’7 and weighs 107 lbs.
Just because these women in their 30’s (my own age) are now ready to Marry – doesn’t mean I am. You and your feminist ilk and call me all the names you want. These aging women don’t know who I am when they see me in public – not the legions of men who think like me – nor know my opinions when they “size me up” and mistake me as successful and gettable simply because of the options that existed prior to their expirations date.
Every single thing Dalrock says about women and age is DEAD ON and 100000% correct. Ignore it at your own peril SPINSTERS.
P.S. Stop asking me about my Sushi purchases. Stop pretending you have never “tried that kind of Sushi before”.
Trust me Mr. Futile I wish I was kidding / trolling whatever you want to think about this. Because it makes me feel BAD when a women my own age hits on me. It’s irritated and I PROMISE you and your readers I am not the only guy coming to terms with this.
@kittehserf
Heheh, I was beginning to think the only one who saw that was Michael, who, evidently, doesn’t have enough of a sense of humor to follow along.
@Michael – the joke in the “odd” reply was that you’re a parasite (The part that wasn’t a joke was the bit at the end about being in a loveless relationship with people you have no empathy or feelings for) I admit, it was kind of strung out towards the end. Sorry. My sense of humor can be a bit skewed.
Can I interest you in something, perhaps, better suited to your taste?
—————
Michael, Michael, you’re a fabulous man
Living as only fabulous people can
on the beach, on the beach
did I mention the beach?
And now you’re here to teach, here to teach, here to SPINSTERS OLD PEOPLE AISLES 173K!
“It’s not about those bitches who ignore me”
And all our replies bore thee
“but those damn bitches, they ignored me!”
Still, you ain’t sad, you’ve got the juice to turn bad into glad
information at your fingertips curtsy of the ‘Sphere
Wrested like a vein of pain in your mind
I guess it’s here we’ll find the design that allows you to elucidate
fill our plate with your bitter tasting hate, in a manner of debate
i’d debate was worth debating as I find it degrading
all of your hating is easily making your stance evidently clear
that your intent is not to teach, but to fleece and I beseech
that you fit the niche of the former guy, not-nice
who’s now not nicer
“I used to be a hopeless romantic!
Till I found one day it’s tragic how my pedantic
observations that manipulating people with coy lies
weren’t getting me no cold lies, or cold thighs
so my sighs were nigh as time sped by
Being nice never got me laid so I now I’ll cease
Flee to CA, Live on a beach beach beach”
SO! What great lessons can you impart? What wonders, work of art
teach me. I like to fancy myself smart, good of heart,
sure I can learn to recite the part
of your new bible, the Dalrock one
now that you’ve gone, and gotten some
statistics to bend and math to murder
Show me the part where traditionalism went:
“It’s okay for men to date decades younger than themselves
but women are old and hollywood sells lies!”
You can show us all the magic highway to a better tomorrow and cure our sorrow
presciently, before we get some
and all it’ll take is to sell our souls to your furnace of wrath?
Fucking sign me up, sounds amazing!
You’ve got facts, we’re all old, might I be so bold
to have you lay them out for us?
Or could it be that all you’ve got is not enough
mere minor magic in your mind, thinking, of a kind
To wit.
You’re full of a shit, you niwit.
And all I have to say is:
SPINSTERS OLD PEOPLE PHOTOSHOP 173K LOL RICH VERY RICH BEACH
GUYZ YOU GUYZ!!! MIKEY FINALLY NOTICED ME! ZOMG ZOMG I FEEL SO SPECIAL!
Yes, Mikey, you certainly are. Protips, loser:
1. Stop talking to yourself, and stop wishfully thinking every woman wants your past-its-prime ass. The sad fact is, men’s sexual potency starts to decline at age 19. Dudes are lucky that women are looking for more than just high testosterone levels in a man, because if that’s what we were really shooting for, we’d all have to be ephebophiles. If I were in your shoes, I’d stop with this juvenile willy-waving and work hard on growing a personality, because you are WAY late to that game, and you’re not maturing well. Men have expiration dates, too, like it or not. Ever hear of andropause? Why do you think there’s Viagra? Or, hell, Just For Men hair dye?
2. Just because someone a little older than you was polite enough to say “excuse me” to you when trying to get past you to the bar, doesn’t mean she wants you. It means the bar is fucking crowded, and you’re in her way, and she is only trying to be nice about it. Move aside, and you won’t get hurt.
3. Stop making ASSumptions about unmarried women over the age of the little twits whose pants you’re trying to get into. And stop trying to insult me; you’re failing hard. The only thing you’ve succeeded in showing off here is your stupidity. Not an attractive trait in a man.
4. And you aren’t fooling anyone with your tall tales, either. No one here believes you’re educated — you can’t spell, and your grammar is atrocious; also, you can’t analyze data or even formulate a coherent thought for shit. No one here believes you’re rich, and no one here believes you own a fancy home on a beach anywhere. No one here believes you have a girlfriend of any age, because your personality is fucking repulsive, and all the money in the world can’t make THAT look good. It wouldn’t even matter if you were telling the truth, because everything else you say here is bullshit. So why should we believe you? Spare us the phony bragging. It won’t sway anyone here. This site is dedicated to the mockery of the likes of you for a reason, bubba.
5. You’re just some random fuck-ass from the Internet. Your opinion of us means NOTHING. You haven’t dazzled us with your superior knowledge, because you don’t have any. All you’ve demonstrated here is the depth of your dumbth. We are laughing at you, Mikey…because you’re just so hilariously clueless.
Now run along, little old boy, and play on the freeway.
But get off before you get hit by a car, and spend the moments after rethinking your life in a wash of introspection.
introspection that will now never leave you
The really funny part is that even if Mikey really were highly educated (snrk) and wealthy (snrk snrk) and lived ON THE BEACH DAMMIT (stop it you’re killing me) he wouldn’t be worth anyone’s time. Who’d want to date this cretin? He’s a loser all round.
The thing that I think is odd about all this is that most guys don’t seem to want to get married in their 20s, either– so if you want to marry a peer (without having to wheedle, coax, and blackmail him down the aisle!) then I reckon the odds are better if you do wait til you are past 27 or so to start “husband hunting” in earnest, when the guys finally start to show some actual interest in settling down.
Before that, the main guys who seem to want marriage in their immediate futures are the highly religious and/or guys 10+ years older. (Not that there is anything wrong with either of tnose things, if that is what one is into.)
But I don’t agree with the prevailing “red pill” view that a woman can always make a more conventionally “advantageous” match for herself last year than next.
In fact I think it is usually a bad idea to take advice from people who hate you; somehow it’s seldom in your best interest! 😉
“allot.”
LOL
on another note: do people still make money from the law biz? I thought about law school awhile back but reading lawschool blogs about newly minted JDs in jalopies fleeing the proverbial Dust Bowl scared me straight into another line of study. Yikes
Dunno about in the US, but I don’t think there’s such an animal as a poor lawyer out here.