Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.
Here are a few of them:
Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP). This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.
Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.
As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process. However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.
Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.
But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!
Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.
He needs to manage risk vs reward. When courting, there are two fundamental risks. These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.
So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!
For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important. The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.
Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.
Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.
This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”
And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”
That Churchill, what a card!
Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married; unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.
Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)
They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …
Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma; older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.
Well, you could always marry a dude.
There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.
Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”
The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.
Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?
Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.
But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage. For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.
That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?
As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:
But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).
katz – ::cheers:: 🙂
Even if Louis were not in my life, I would rather be alone than have anything to do with any moronic misogynist like Mikey here. For that matter I’d prefer it (and expected it) to any other man at all, and have never sought another relationship. The idea of people’s individuality, and how not everyone is looking for a relationship, any relationship, seems as hard for these bonerobsessives to understand as the idea that women are human beings.
Michael, sonny: you’re not worth shit.
Bingo!
As for me, my cats at their most cantankerous are infinitely superior to any MRA, no matter how loaded down with roses, bonbons and prime rib of mastodon he comes. I read Mikey’s wall-o-crap above, and all I could think about was a plain, pompous nobody, growing plainer and more pompous by the year, lecturing me slowly into my grave. Years that I could spend pursuing pleasanter things, like a drink of hot lead, wasted on THAT? Oh HELL no.
Also, I am not sure Ayn Rand even said that.
Fribbie’s Nuclear Poo Stench of Death smells sweeter than any roses that come with an MRA attached.
Perfect name for a punk band! First single will be “YOU Have An Expiration Date, WE Don’t”.
Wheee, Fribs will have all teh fame!
Her vocals would probably be just right for a punk band, too. 😛
IMO most women are sexier past their 30s. Wrinkles around the eyes add charisma, and the personality is usually tougher, which I like.
MRAs seem to like bland, submissive, barely legal women though. It makes them feel important, I guess?
You don’t know that.
I wouldn’t say that a “quality man” is a man who refuses to marry me because of my sexual history. I’d gladly distance myself from slut-shaming jerks.
I hope you don’t think Ayn Rand is an example of a respectable thinker.
Not only that, but she did it with a much younger man. Who was also married to someone else, if memory serves. She threw a major hissy when he dumped her for someone with a more congenial overall personality, too.
I don’t suppose Mikey knows all that, though. And if he does, clearly the irony of it is lost on him.
Why do the MRA’s like Ayn Rand so much? Someone please ‘splain.
Ayn Rand? At a glance? The insistence on regard, empathy and care for others being a moral failing and the emphasis on self-made, self-actualized desires + the constant admiration of sociopathy.
But this is incorrect. Hypothethical Man is not a vampire. He can’t “Suck up her most fertile years”, like some kind of parasite. Happiness, joy and love are not zero sum games where it only matters if you’re married at 40 or 50 or 60, and the first 4 decades of your life end up meaning nothing because, oh no, for a moment you don’t have a partner.
It’s a misunderstanding of how reality works, has worked, and will work. The average age of first marriage is 28 and 26 (in 2011, at least) in the US. Your magical mental masturbatory vengeance binge of “HAH, THAT SLUT WHO IGNORED ME IN FIRST GRADE IS LONELY NOW!” doesn’t hold in actuality, because there are so many people in the world who aren’t you and so many options to get married, if marriage is the goal.
The constant bothering about how women degrade and men reach their peak at the age of whatever is nothing more and nothing less than someone’s attemp to get revenge at the people who wouldn’t date them in high school. It’s a reframing of your own complete lack of confidence, ie, “I was worthless for the first three decades of my life, but now that I’m 32, I finally have value, and it’s my time to shine!”.
I’m honestly happy you accept that you’re worth something at 32, that’s great, go you, but no part of that acceptance and letting go of your past hurt need involve belittling the rest of humanity.
Oh so this is why it seems like my entire graduating class and college friends are marrying? We’re pushing 30 and OH NOES WE’RE OLD!!
Wait…that fails to explain the one wedding I’ll actually be attending…
Also, I like this trend, as it’s more like most of them got married last year and now my FB feed is full of babies.
Speaking of babies, I got pics of my cory babies, gotta post them over in the open thread already.
Sometimes I like to play the “what would I rather do than attach myself to a misogynist who is trying to scare young women into marrying him” game. Would I rather never have another romantic relationship as long as I live? Check. Get the demon wrinkles?!!?! Check. Never become a parent, because natural childbirth is impossible after 25 and adoption is imaginary? Check.* Take a bath with a wolverine? Check.
*Extra check, because misogynists make terrible parents and no child deserves that.
I married a quality man my own age after a fun and eventful youth featuring a variety of cocks that were not his, and we’re still married now. I wonder how that happened?
(Michael, otoh, may as well write “Forever Alone” on his forehead with a Sharpie.)
@ Viscaria
Adopt the wolverine, dress it up in bows and ribbons, and tend my own wounds when it objects in a forceful manner to its cutesification? Yep, still better than living with someone like Michael.
And I think he knows that most women feel that way, which is why he’s so angry.
Are we talking a wolverine or Wolverine? Because Hugh Jackman, yum.
The claws might be a problem, though.
I had a sudden bizarre image of Mr C finding random unattached cocks lying around and saying “Hey, this one’s not mine!”
I watched an old movie with Sandra Bullock in it the other day. (Religion Inc – terrible movie. She only has a supporting role). She was pretty but so… bland looking. I barely recognised her. She is so much more awesome now that she’s almost *gasp* 50. She has “retained her SMV” as much as any of her similar aged male colleagues.
There are too many comments to respond to individually. I would encourage each female on the thread to explain the ACS 2012 marriage statistics as well as all other sources of marriage related data which continue to show women delaying marriage (becuase they believe it will be thiers for the taking any time they want) into thier 30s. The numbers of never married women continue to increase as well as the numbers of SPINSTERS (I.E. a huge chunk of women on this site.
Most of you don’t know (or care) about how men think.
Most of you are totally deluded. The comment about Sandra Bullock being hotter at 50 takes the cake. Speaking of cake, you cannot have it and eat it, or give it out to everyone in your prime twenties and expect someone to buy you a new cake to eat later. Hollywood is not reality. Media fabrications about women being sexy at 40 are a joke to us. They are not reality.
Those of you, who actually suceed at pulling off your grande scheme to “have your fun” by rejecting good husbands and fathers during your prime fertile twenties in favor of riding a Ferris wheel of alpha cock believing Hollywoods lies and actually land a “quality” man past 30 are becoming more and more the exception to the rule.
The word is out. It has been for years now (on the Internet and guy talk) and the growing numbers of never marrieds and SPINSTERS are a reflection of this.
This isn’t about “she ignored me in high school/college” and now shes going to be alone. Its about right vs. wrong, consequences and cause and effect between genders. You can’t possibly expect most men to just sit back and accept the terms modern feminism has thrust upon them. Only the weakest, desperate, undesirable low income losers will comply. in other words: Those men with little to no options who need a place to dip thier wick. And can only find solace in single mothers, past thier prime reformed party sluts and SPINSTERS. These men are not quality men. They are losers by default.
Speakig of losers: There will always be men for you to choose from. But, just like strippers who mysteriously cant seem to find as much work past 30 you are subject to the same realities the free market. Our point is the quality of those men you think you can have after 29 severly diminish with YOUR age and to a lesser extent your time on the a Ferris wheel. Both are inter related.
Ignore this reality at your own peril.
Wait, is the cake my vagina or what?
I fucking LOVE Ferris wheels! I’m spending ALL my time on Ferris wheels, eating cake. Or maybe I’m giving away cake? I’M STILL NOT SURE WHETHER OR NOT MY VAGINA IS CAKE HELP ME FIGURE THIS OUT MICHAEL I CAN’T SLEEP UNTIL I KNOW WHETHER OR NOT TO FROST MY VAGINA
p.s. to Michael: Please stick around. You show great promise, grasshopper, and might even aspire to be 2014’s Troll of the Year. You are fucking hilarious.
Well, the posturing about using “logical response, statistics, factual evidence or even social science theories” sure got dropped real fast.
Instead, we have screaming about SPINSTERS and proclamations of The Truth. Found on the Internet, no less.
Now, see, you’re really not supposed to answer your own question, Mikey. But anyway, people are delaying marriage because they are waiting until after college and establishing themselves in a career; couples living together without being married is more socially acceptable; and some folks just plain don’t want to be married.
Nope. We just don’t care about how you think.
Manboozers : Hmm, actually many of us are already married to great men? And really happy, so everything has worked out well?
Michael : Just you wait! Someday it all won’t work out! In many cases this will have to involve a time machine, but still! Beware!
Michael, honey, you can’t threaten to quit a job that you’ve already been fired from. Nobody cares whether or not you want to marry them. But you already know that, don’t you?
I’M SO GLAD HE CAME BACK EVERYONE.
“Explain” how? Like, yes, women are, in your country and many other places, not getting married as young. Given that nobody was disputing that, it’s not actually that great of a gotcha.
1) I am extremely interested in the difference between SPINSTERS and other unmarried women (is it that SPINSTERS shout more?) 2) I think you are expecting us to be devastated by this pretty neutral and inoffensive bit of data, and I am not sure why.
Should we all send you lists of women we are attracted to (if any) so that you can let us know which ones we’re wrong about?
Just to be clear, you would be terrible at both of these things.
I love it when reactionary folks talk about how marriage is the Most Important Thing Ever. It’s like they think we actually care about marriage just as much as they do.
BUT WHO’S BUYING ME CAKE I WANT CAKE