Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.
Here are a few of them:
Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP). This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.
Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.
As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process. However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.
Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.
But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!
Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.
He needs to manage risk vs reward. When courting, there are two fundamental risks. These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.
So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!
For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important. The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.
Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.
Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.
This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”
And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”
That Churchill, what a card!
Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married; unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.
Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)
They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …
Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma; older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.
Well, you could always marry a dude.
There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.
Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”
The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.
Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?
Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.
But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage. For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.
That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?
As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:
But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).
Lana,
You can label me part of the Manosphere is you want. I don’t really think too highly of them (by the same token, I don’t think too highly of feminism either, first and foremost because of abortion).
It’s quite true that *most* 18-25 year olds are not interested in much older men. If I’m lucky, I’ll find one of the exceptions. If I’m not, I’ll die miserable. Ultimately it’s up to fate, not you or me. I do think though that there is a minority of late teens / early 20s women who like older men, just as there is a minority of young men who would be happy to date older women. I got kicked off one of the Manosphere blogs a while ago for arguing that there was nothing wrong with older women dating 19-year old boys, either.
Lastly, I’ll gladly concede that while I personally am attracted touch younger people, that’s purely a subjective preference and there’s nothing objective about it. There are lots of 50 year old women who are objectively very good looking (when I was a teenager my crushes were generally on much older women).
I’ll cop to missing one thing about being 18 — my nearly full ride scholarship that I blew. That is, clearly, not about dating, but about how I might have my degree if not for that.
There are better ways to plan your life, dude.
Oh, so Hector’s a forced birther, too? Colour me surprised.
You realize posters here aren’t denouncing or even arguing against May-December romances if both people are consenting adults, right? What people are mocking is the idea that once girls hit puberty, they hit the marriage market and should get married as a soon as possible because that’s what God or Evo Biology or Future of Western Civilization demands.
A woman can hit 30 or 40 or 80 without ever getting married, and still be a reasonably happy and productive human being. Women can even get married for the first time later in life, we don’t have a sell-by date stamped on our foot.
Dalrock is abusing statistics and pretend logic to create a goofball theory about supply-side courting in the dating “economy”. Yes, young and sexy women do get the most male attention, but pointing that out doesn’t make his assertions remotely scientific, sensible or reality-based. It’s certainly not going to scare hot young women into wedding older, marriage-minded MRAs or traditionalists.
I enjoy how misogynists seem to think women are devastated, even inconsolable about getting older. Personally, I think ageism is real problem for both sexes when it comes to employment, but I don’t care if you think young women are way more fuckable, dateable or marriagable. That’s life and I’m an adult, it’s not like this is Forth Grade and I’m being picked on for being the old kid. I’ve got problems and I’ve got issues, but I also have wisdom and confidence, both of which kick ass.
I’m thinking that Hector may be accurately predicting his future there.
I have nothing against couples having a wide age difference .My sister met her eventual husband when she was 19 and he was 28. The thing is though he was not specifically “looking.” for a teenager to marry. They also didn’t get married until she was 24.
Its the whole idea these guys “assuming” all these teen aged girls are out their willing to date them let alone marry tehm is quite ridiculous.
*lol* I had this huge fan-crush on a singer in a band when I was nineteen and he was thirty. Much later, when I was thirty and out on a club, I bumped into him and he tried to hit on me. Husband and our friends who knew about my massive fan-crush back then and saw the whole incidence from a few metres off thought it was a super funny coincidence… All I could think was “damn, he’s so OLD, how could I ever crush on someone that much OLDER?”. Logically, there was always the same age difference, but IDK… fourty is just so much older than thirty.
Not to mention that Hector’s chances are going down as he ages. But of course dudes stay Supah Sexy even when they’re 65 and lusting after teenagers, amirite? Especially dudes who think women should be forced to give birth once pregnant. (Don’t forget that he’s against abortion, which I’m betting doesn’t mean “wants universally available, affordable birth control available to all, and thorough sex education to make sure people know how to use it” but “you have no say over your body and your future once you’re pregnant”.)
That’s the other problem. Depending on the age difference .How fair is it for any children that are born to have an almost guarantee the father will be dead before they even finish high school ? Or the wife being in a position to be trying to still raise children while also trying to care for an eldery husband ?
Quote:*lol* I had this huge fan-crush on a singer in a band when I was nineteen and he was thirty. END
I had a crush on Elvis when I was 8/10 years old . Of course the images of him I had a crush on were his album covers and movies he made when he was in his 20’s maybe. The reality is he was 33 years older than me. I did not have a crush on the 42 year old Elvis. Not even when I reached the ripe old age of 20(or 31-34).
But the same problem persists, most gays like hot, juicy young men, not wrinkly old fogeys.
Ssssh. Nobody tell D&D about bears, DILFs or GILFs. And also, old guys can still totally be fertile, so why are they worth less?
RE: leftwingfox
how much am I bid for Death and Destruction? The bidding opens at one ring-tab and a gram of navel lint.
SWINDLER! *pelts with rotten fruit*
RE: katz
I don’t know whether it also changes with IP,
It doesn’t. My road trip proved that.
RE: Hector
here are some 18 and 19 year old women (and men) out there who are looking for much older partners … maybe for a quasi-parental figure,
o_o
O_O
*sloooooowly backs away*
I got with my hubby when he was twenty-seven and I was nineteen. But Jesus Christ on a pogo crutch, dude, do you not realize how FUCKING CREEPY that is? I’m getting married for a HUSBAND, not a fucking parent! WTF. DUDE.
If I’m lucky, I’ll find one of the exceptions. If I’m not, I’ll die miserable.
Do you have some terminal illness that forbids you from dating someone who ISN’T that young? If you want to be a… *shudder* ‘quasi-parental’ figure, get a fucking pet or something.
There’s something hilarious about a dude who can state that some people are looking for their spouse to be a parental figure with no apparent awareness of how that statement reads to most people.
@LBT I think the ‘quasi’ part of ‘quasi-parental’ is supposed to negate the creepiness. It doesn’t actually negate that aspect for anyone who’s not a child-bride enthusiast, but guys like Hector tend not to pick up on that sort of thing.
For me the idea that a younger person wanted to date me so I could fill in for their parents would make me run screaming in the opposite direction. If that idea is appealing to you, get therapy.
RE: Brooked
Yeah, no shit. Like, I’m into some kinks that most would consider akin to that, but JESUS FUCK NO. What I do in the bedroom, with careful boundaries and consent and discussion are SO NOT LIKE wanting my husband to be my fucking PARENT.
Just…
Whatever. It’s my husband’s birthday today, so I shall cuddle him and tell him how great he is.
Ninja’d by Cassandra, but everyone should make fun of people who have to vocally distance themselves from pedophilia because it’s a fucking sad spectacle.
@LBT
I never begrudge any adult any safe kink on principle, but I personally find Daddy and little kid role-playing off-putting at best. It may stem from me being weirded out when I learned Ronald Reagan called his wife “mommy”. (Yes, I’m old.)
RE: Brooked
You are far from the only person who’s said that to me. That’s why I generally don’t mention it until something like this happens, where some asshole might try and nudge into my kink territory when actually he just said something incredibly creepy and not-okay.
I generally don’t play a little kid. It’s complicated.
The whole parental subsitute thing in relationships just makes me want to scrub myself with Lysol on a Brillo pad. Too gross for words. I loathe the idea of calling a lover Daddy or Baby or Mummy or whatever.
Brooked – ah, gods, Ronnie and Nancy! There was a satirist here in the 80s, Max Gillies, who did sketches on those two, among others. He once had Reagan trying to lift MLK’s “I have a dream” speech.
Ronnie (at podium): I HAVE A DREAM … I had a dream last night, Mommy.
Nancy (dotingly): Did you, Ronnie?
Ronnie: I was walking tall down Main Street … and I didn’t have my trousers on. Then I saw Jane Wyman riding a white horse …
[Nancy’s face freezes, she drops his arm]
… and she’d turned Commie, and I didn’t have my gun!
[After this Ronnie dozes off and Nancy has to finish the speech for him]
PS I’m not talking about specific kinks, LBT, though I realise my comment looks like that! It’s the relationship as a whole thing I’m referring to that nauseates me.
Same here. And on a semi-serious note, what really bugs me about all these guys who dress up as Elvis is that NONE of them dress up as the cute young Elvis with the chic ’50s outfits. Always the sweaty, old, fat Elvis in the tacky bedazzled ’70s Vegas capes. Good if you’re aiming for a joke, maybe, but…(sigh) just not hot.
Word.
I like younger men, but the operative word here is MEN. No boys (or immature geezers, either) need apply. And no Mommy Issues, pleaseandthankyou…I am not a counselling service. And I have no taste for child-rearing, especially not with sex mixed in. That shit’s not kinky, that’s PERVERTED.
Heh – given the age and shape of most Elvis impersonators, it’s just as well they don’t try dressing up as Young Elvis.
Pro tip for Hector, not that he’s likely to take it: Not your body? Not your business.
And wanting to control a woman, whatever her age, is always icky…but it’s especially so as the age/power gap widens. As is getting off on being in a “quasi-parental” relationship to the other person. There’s a very good reason why student-teacher sex, even at university level, is heavily frowned upon, if not outright illegal.
That, and they can’t sing, either..