Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.
Here are a few of them:
Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP). This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.
Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.
As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process. However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.
Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.
But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!
Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.
He needs to manage risk vs reward. When courting, there are two fundamental risks. These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.
So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!
For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important. The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.
Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.
Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.
This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”
And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”
That Churchill, what a card!
Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married; unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.
Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)
They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …
Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma; older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.
Well, you could always marry a dude.
There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.
Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”
The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.
Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?
Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.
But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage. For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.
That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?
As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:
But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).
Women are the consumers of courtship now? I thought we were the supply curve.
I thought these dues were against marriage, because she’s just going to divorce them and leave them on the hook for child…er, bon-bon support forever. So why would they care about fertility?
But if you want a young woman who has nothing to compare you to…oh, I get it now.
LOL
Oh fuck, he actually made acronyms for them.
Um, in BioTruth talk, isn’t this backwards? The women are the ones who will carry and give birth, the men are essentially sperm donors. Wouldn’t the women be the picky ones? Don’t other MRA types actually SAY THAT!?
And of course the rest is just typical “marry a teenager” stuff. Yawn.
Have fun getting a divorce, boys.
In other words: ladies, it’s your fault that these misogynistic men don’t get married, so you should just wed the first guy you meet and have his babies, even if he’s an asshole.
I guess you marry one teenager and, when she wises up and divorces you, you go looking for another one? Of course there will always be young women available, because every young woman dreams of marrying a middle aged or elderly misogynist.
Also, seriously, ew, why would anyone besides fellow teens want to bang teenagers? They don’t have experience and are rather immature as a whole and…
Oh wait…
I’m gonna go on the record saying Dalrock doesn’t make courtship sound like fun for the suppliers OR the consumers. But if all demand for the product ceased tomorrow, he’d just be complaining about how those pesky women/consumers are so fickle we ruined a perfectly good economy or something.
It sounds like he should work on increasing his courtship output. Maybe he should upgrade his courtship refinery.
As a teenager, I used to obsessively doodle “cloudiah <3 some random middle-aged sexist" over and over, while day dreaming and twirling my hair around my fingers.
That’s why my next husband is going to be an elderly sexist. Hypergamy.
Ya, as a teenager, whenever much older men would hit on me, my first thought was always “wow, this guy obviously really cares about me and wants to marry and take care of me,” not “this guy is totally creepy, halp halp.”
Has he considered forming a courtship co-op with his fellow MRAs? That can really help with keeping costs down.
This kind of “traditionalist” thinking is like playing Jenga: more justifications and nonsense get loaded to on top of the desired structures, even as the foundational reasons are knocked out from underneath it.
When I was a teenager, I used to dream that someone like Roosh would choose me as his wife. I’d tend to his every need, and he’d call me a bitch, and he’d cheat on me, and we’d totally be a happy family. It’d be TRU LUV based on BIOTRUTHS. And I’d be a proud wife, even when he sleeps with teenagers after our honeymoon. *dramatic sigh!*
Is there anything more romantic than conceptualising relationships through a capitalist lens? I think not.
Nothing says “husband material” quite like treating humans beings as commodities.
I guess pretending that they have options helps them get through their day. It’s that or sit in the corner crying into a pint of ice cream.
If the first sentence is complete bullshit, should I even bother reading the rest? Maybe I’ll just read the parts that David wrote.
Otter brain-bleach:
This Sexual Marketplace and Sexual Market value stuff seems to be the new thing with the Game afficionados. Certainly Theodore Beale has devoted several blogs on Alpha Game to explaining/defending it. As pointed out above, this is definitely an excuse, excellent in their eyes, for pursuing very young women. What this guy does not bring up, at least not in the passages quoted, is that SMV also is based on attractiveness as well as age. And women, of course lose their SMV much more quickly than men… So we’re back to the idea that women are of worth only for their youth and beauty, an idea that these guys seem incapable of escaping. Which sets them up for disappointment and emphasizes/reinforces their misogyny. Some times I get so tired. Lather, rinse, repeat, ad infinitum.
Hm. David has mentioned the fact that there’s a higher risk of divorce if you marry young before. I always thought that me and Husband married young (I was 24 and he was 22), but we’re in the second oldest category in that chart.
A colleague of mine claimed, on the other hand, when someone remarked that me and Husband married so extremely young (the average age here for first marriage is 33 for women and 35,5 for men… just checked the statistics in order to confirm that my experience of friends and colleagues getting married in their thirties wasn’t a fluke) that the risk of divorce is lower if you marry younger. I guess both he and David could be right if a) Sweden differ from the USA or b) both countries have similar trends, but the risk of divorce first declines with a higher age and then rises again when the ages of the people involved get even higher.
In any case, it would be a pretty useless strategy to base all your decisions in life on the assumption that you and everyone around you are gonna be statistically average in everything.
More brain bleach (sorry about the music, I couldn’t find the original):
Um, didn’t he say at the beginning there that the men spend the most on courtship and are at higher risk for rejection and such? If that’s the case, there’s another choice to add at the end of his treatise here: encourage women to actively court men too. You know, encourage women to ask men out, take men to dinner, buy men things? The only reason men are expected to be the ones to actively court women is because women are expected to sit and wait around for men to ask them out. Wouldn’t it be better to just start telling women that it’s okay to ask men out?
No? Well, okay then.
That guy with the beard has got some moves.