One of the issues that many Men’s Rights activists profess to be Very Concerned About is prison rape. This alleged concern translates into essentially zero actual activism beyond the occasional indignant reaction to someone making a terrible rape joke about men in prison. But then they’ll turn around and make similar rape jokes themselves.
That’s right: MRAs don’t only joke about rapes in which women are the victims. Like many Americans, sadly, quite a few MRAs seem to think that rape is an appropriate — and even sort of hilarious — punishment for men they don’t like.
For evidence of this, one needs look no further than a recent discussion on The Spearhead, in which WF Price’s followers fantasize about disgraced “feminist” and confessed almost-murderer Hugo Schwyzer being raped in prison.
In his post, Price notes that Schwyzer, if convicted on felony DUI charges for a recent incident that left a woman seriously injured, will be facing time in prison. He takes the opportunity to speculate, with evident relish, on the possibility of Schwyzer being beaten by other prisoners for being, well, less than a real man, in Price’s eyes.
Noting that prisons have “sensitive needs yards” for those who might be at risk for being attacked by other prisoners, Price writes:
These special prisoners include gang snitches, celebrities, physically frail prisoners, child molesters and homosexuals. …
Although I’m not an expert on this, I’d assume Hugo Schwyzer would fit the sensitive needs profile. As a feminist, liberal white male with bisexual tendencies, I can imagine that many of the general population inmates would quite enjoy giving Hugo a beating, for the entertainment value if nothing else. There’s nothing that screams “hit me!” quite like a snarky, passive-aggressive white nerd in prison. If he is effeminate on top of that some form of violence is a near certainty.
Price’s remarks are merely the opening salvo. In the comments, various Spearhead regulars are much less circumspect about expressing their desire to see Schwyzer physically harmed — and, specificaly, raped — in prison. They don’t even seem to care much about his actual, confessed crimes; they want him to be raped for being a feminist. (Note: The comments quoted below may possibly be triggering, so proceed with caution.)
Dannyfrom504, who apparently has served time, starts it off by writing that
he’ll be happy to know there are in fact feminists in prison, but they dono’t call them feminists. they call them, “my bitch”.
Geographybeefinalisthimself hopes that Schwyzer gets raped so as to “set an example” for people like, well, me:
As for me, I hope that Hugo does NOT get special treatment when being incarcerated to set an example for all other male feminists (and I stand by my position that all male feminists are like Hugo, including Futrelle). …
I’d give anything to know Hugo dropped the soap in prison and got sodomized so often that he contracted HIV or an incurable STD and lost bowel control because of how many times he had been repeatedly sodomized. After all, why should his not being raped be more valuable than that of any ordinary inmate who doesn’t denigrate almost all other men for not being feminist enough?
Rotten jokes that
Maybe Hugo Schwytzer will come out of prison with a real understanding of Rape Culture.
And a commenter with the ironic name Ethical praises Price for writing such a fair and balanced post. No, really:
Despite Schwyzer’s habit of ridiculing issues affecting men who’ve suffered cruelly at the hands of misandrist laws, this article very admirably took the high road, refraining from wishing evil on the man. Incredibly magnanimous, given Schwyzer seemed to entertain himself heaping scorn and ridicule on men in the meat meat grinder of false accusations, paternity fraud, or alimony or child support slavery, even at the same time that more than a few of those men were being driven to commit suicide.
And then takes an even lower road himself:
While I admire the high mindedness of this article, I also believe that if Schwyzer does find his way behind bars there would be some justice in him being surrounded by at least some of those unfairly jailed for child support, false rape, or other causes he might have implicitly or explicitly ridiculed. As high minded as it is … articles like this can only help identify the man to a demographic that could not easily be more hostile to his contemptuous liberal self. And his identification can only increase the likelihood that one way or another, his sins will be very harshly addressed.
Once again I present to you: The greatest human rights movement of the twenty-first century.
Schwyzer, who has confessed to the DUI as he earlier confessed to almost killing an ex-girlfriend, deserves to spend time in prison. He does not deserve to be raped. No one does.
Anyone concerned about the appalling epidemic of rape in American prisons should visit the website of Just Detention International, an organization devoted to ending this barbarism.
“But Paul, that happened over a month ago!”
Another reason the eye for an eye punishment doesn’t work is that the person who raped the rapist is now a rapist, and now therefore deserves to be raped, but then his rapist will also deserve to get raped, etc.
🙁 I’m sorry Weeboy. *offers hugs*
One of the reasons I love this site (and its good folks) so much is that it’s helped me to put into words those ideas I simply felt before, such as when someone wished rape on a rapist. I knew it felt wrong they should do that, but the good people commenting on here clarified the reasons WHY it felt bad.
For that reason, I think we shouldn’t be too hard on Moma Sita and other newbies (she IS a newbie, yeah?). Not because I think she’s right – I don’t – but because I want her to stick around long enough to learn why she’s wrong, and to help her form her own arguments for the future. I’m still learning, but I feel lot more equipped to argue the point than I used to.
Of course, if she’s not a newbie and I just haven’t identified a repeat offender, then bring out the legos.
And @WeeBoy: I’m so sorry for what you and your friends are going through.
She is a newbie, Spleeny.
Is Lindwormlady new, also? I don’t think I’ve seen her around before.
Have you had your Welcome Package yet?
By sheer coincidence, I read a lindworm legend for the first time the other day.
Crud, I was thinking the “lady” was a definite indicator of preferred pronouns, but I really should have asked first and made sure.
Sorry if I stepped on your toes, lindwormlady.
Click my handle for Teh Qte.
For any newb’s, it’s fine to make missteps, and generally we are a forgiving bunch if you obey the first rule of holes: Stop digging. The culture of this place is not accepting of vigilantism or vengeful punishments. Wishing for our enemies to be punished by anything worse than stepping on LEGOs is generally frowned on. On a good day, you will be gently corrected; on a bad day, you will get yelled at. This is because we are better than people like Paul Elam and the dregs of humanity on the Spearhead, and we like to draw very clear lines between us and them.
I think once someone accepts the notion that rape is a punishment that can be deserved, they’ve just gone ahead and condoned the totality of Rape Culture in one fell swoop.
Also, Hugo Schwyzer is not a feminist. He never was a feminist. He was a guy looking to lead a movement and benefit from it in some way. Really MRAs could take a few lessons from him on how to be an asshole. I’m probably preaching to the choir here, but I felt moved to remark He Is So Not A Feminist. It irks the shit out of me that he gets labeled as such.
Lili Fugit – hear, hear! HfS was a pretend feminist, but it was a veneer for a slimy, racist and misogynist predator. It’s just such a shame it worked on too many people.
I also extend hugs to weeboy.
I have to admit I might have less sympathy for someone who perpetrated violent crimes against someone and then was made subject to those same violent crimes but I can’t bring myself to actually wish violence like that on another person or even think that they ‘deserved’ it. cuz no one does.
I think katz summed up the cycle of violence pretty well.
also I’m not sure why they think being violently raped by another man in prison would cause him to see the ‘error of his misandrist ways’ like these people seem to be implying. If anything wouldn’t it just validate what he believes more?
Yes. Unfortunately, I think for many, that’s one of the hardest rules to follow. (Stopped following a lot of blogs for that reason…)
Moma Sita’s post reflects a common sentiment, I hope she will reconsider the issue and stay.
People tend to dehumanize people in prison. I have friends who run a charity that donates instruments to prisons and teaches music to inmates, and it is very difficult to raise money for that’s sort of charity. Most people won’t donate money to for charities serving prisoners and are often gobsmacked that someone would even ask, especially if they’re white.
In America, most people don’t care about prison reform (or sentencing reform or bail reform) unless they have been personally effected by the prison industrial complex. This is why
MRA’s lip service to male prisoners is so frustrating.
Search “prison” on Spearhead and learn how sexual improprieties by female guards and female teachers being insufficiently punished is the key issue of our times.
Go to the aesthetic nightmare that is AVFM home page and look through the ~50 categories listed. This is how they frame discussions about our justice system: Domestic Violence Industry, False Rape Culture, Family Courts, Paternity Fraud, Restraining Order Terrorism. (
Internet hugs for WeeBoy from me <3
Whoops, I accidentally hit the post button while I was still writing.
Just to wrap up, I try not to get pissed off every time they parrot prison statistics to bludgeon feminism, but I’d love it if some of these guys would shock the world and actually care about other people.
FYI, “Chivalry” is a listed as a AVFM category. I still can’t get over how much they discuss Chivalry. In fact, I may never get over that.
@Brooked: what do you mean discuss ‘chivalry’? do I even want to know?
I’m pretty sure it has to do with how chivalry says that men are supposed to hold doors for women, pay for dates, etc. They hate that and think it’s some feminist thing even though chivalry is sexist as hell.
@this one is between
I’m sure others can explain this better, but I’ll give it a whirl.
Before learning the peculiar beliefs of MRAs, I viewed chivalry mostly in terms of medieval European history and literature. It was a specific code of conduct for medieval knighthood, acted out in Chivalric romances, which feature famous knights of legend who all eventually get tossed into Arthurian mythology.
In America and some parts of Europe, it’s a catch-all terms for gentlemanly behavior, which means men pampering certain women, in certain situations, by being extra nice and attentive. These modern remnants of chivalry can be seen as romantic or patronizing, depending on your point of view. That is, unless you aren’t a westerner familiar with these customs (aka the vast majority of people on earth), in which case, chivalry has fuck all to do with you.
For MRAs, Chivalry becomes a catch-all term for men sacrificing everything, even their very lives, for women and it’s central to male oppression. They throw out all the historical and cultural aspects that limit the term to Western Europe and toss it into the fairy tales of bowdlerized Evolutionary Biology, which explains the eternal truths about gendered human behavior everywhere, throughout time.
MRA’s use those eternal truths to endlessly expound on why women they personally interact with are terrible and ruin everything. Manginas, male conscription, the Titanic and endless claptrap are all somehow tied into their theories, according to some people on the internet.
You can watch a Canadian woman lecture her toaster about male disposability on YouTube if you’d like to learn more things that aren’t particularly true.
This may be the best description of feMRA YouTube videos I’ve ever read. I snorted a little red wine out of my nose.
Moma Sita: I’m just feeling the water but am I the only person who doesn’t care if a rapist is raped?
I hope so.
Ignore the Hugo focus of their topic but for those who have been convicted of raping I have zero sympathy when they’re assaulted.
Ok, that’s your moral failing. Please be so kind as to keep it to yourself.
auggzillary: Ruby was a commenter who failed to understand that we don’t tolerate support of rape. She was past the point of just not caring, she hoped certain classes of prisoners get raped; she sees it as justice.
We see it as unnacceptable, and such viewpoints as intolerable.
She is one of the few people we have actively hounded from out presence, though it took months. She was thought she could out wait our ire and disdain.
She was wrong.
Moma SIta: I need to apologise, just a bit for a lack of elaboration: I am not saying you are evil for having a moral failing. We all have moral failings.
So that you might think certain types of rape are less blameworthy than others doesn’t, per se, make you an evil person; even though that is an evil thing.
Thanks for the welcome package, Kittehs and Cloudiah! And all the hugs and good vibes to you, WeeBoy.
I’m with everyone here who says that rape should never be repaid in kind, even by wishing it on someone who richly deserves a good long walk through Legoland; retributive justice is at best primitive, and at worst perpetuates a vicious cycle that will keep playing out ad infinitum. Seeing as feminists are working to dismantle rape culture, and promote human social evolution, that shit won’t fly.
That said, the knee-jerk impulse is understandable, even though it should never be acted upon; I’ve felt that way myself in the past. But I’m working on NOT being that way anymore, because I’ve found out that I hate vicious cycles, and flame wars, and doublers-down, and all the other ugly shit.
And as much as Hugo Schwyzer pissed me off with his mansplainy WTFery (especially about feminism-as-“brand”, yecch), I sincerely hope that when his jail time is done, he gets into rehab and sticks with it, and finally works through all his shit and actually becomes the feminist he used to pretend he was. I can’t even ill-wish him for trying to take his girlfriend along on his death wish, because it’s pretty obvious to me that it was the drugs and mental problems talking, not some actual misogynous malice toward her. Having been clinically depressed myself, I have a fair idea of the forces at work there. They are terrible, especially the suicidal impulses, and I can only wish anyone similarly afflicted a complete recovery. Even the worst people…maybe…I hope. Trying to be better than them is fucking HARD. (Hallelujah to the choir!)
PS: Trying to be better than my former self is also fucking hard. (Can I get an amen?)
thanks Brooked,
I was like “What does the code of conduct for medieval knights have to do with anything?/what do they think the code of conduct for knights has to do with anything?”