This quote from the Men’s Rights subreddit was featured on the Against Men’s Rights subreddit a week ago, but I can’t resist reposting it here, since it’s such a marvellous distillation of Men’s Rights LOGICS at work.
![jabberwockysuperfly 60 points 7 days ago (93|33) We appreciate your solidarity. However, please refrain from making statements like "women are all crazy bitches" regardless of how true it might be; feminists mine this subreddit in the hope of finding this kind of statement so they can use it to discredit this movement. permalink source save give gold hide child comments [–]lolyesok [S] 30 points 7 days ago (33|3) Woops, I'll edit that out when I get to a computer. permalink source save parent give gold [–]theskepticalidealist 15 points 6 days ago (19|4) They'll quote that too.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/crazybitches.png?resize=504%2C247&ssl=1)
That’s right: while we of course agree that women are all crazy bitches, we generally don’t like to say that sort of thing out loud, at least here in this subreddit, because our actual opinions are so foul they discredit us every time we say them out loud in public and the evil feminists cherry-pick our statements and reveal to the world WHAT WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE.
And jabberwockeysuperfly won himself 60 upvotes for that wondrous bit of SUPER STEM MANLOGICS.
Later in the discussion, our dear old friend Pecanpig clarified that even if there are some women who aren’t crazy bitches, they’re definitely a bunch of bad … oranges?
![dejour 13 points 7 days ago (29|16) It's not true though that all women are crazy bitches. So she shouldn't be saying that. For me the point though is that some women are and the legal system and public shouldn't assume that women=good, man=bad. permalink source parent save give gold hide child comments [–]Pecanpig 5 points 6 days ago (8|3) Depends on individual circumstances, if you eat 10 oranges and they are all bad then for all intents and purposes oranges are bad, that can be true despite contradicting your own experiences with oranges or whatever.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/badoranges.png?resize=502%2C234&ssl=1)
Orange you a strange one, Pecanpig.
Kitteh — light alcohol on fire, it sorta covers the first two! (It doesn’t smoke)
To anyone who hasn’t ever done this — go in your bathroom, confirm that the sink is neither plastic nor wood, pour some rubbing alcohol in it, being sure to get a nice fine film over it, either light a match, or use a lighter to light a small piece of paper, stand back and drop it in. You can turn on the water if you need to, but it should burn out in a matter of seconds (do stand back, it’s fast enough you might get a bit singed if you drop the fire in while standing over it)
I’m fairly sure that alone counts me as unfeminine.
😯
Of course the ultimate unlady-like behaviour would be setting farts alight.
However I’mma leaving ALL the playing-with-matches games to other people, I hate handling the things.
Dunno, kitteh, you don’t drink, smoke, or light things on fire, you’re starting to sound pretty feminine…
The curious thing about the dos and don’ts is the sheer amount of stuff that doesn’t fall in either category. She’s put so much care in developing a dichotomy between her ideal lady and her mental image of a cheap stripper that she’s completely oblivious to anything off that spectrum. For instance, she talks about not dressing ostentatiously, but she doesn’t say anything about dressing unisex or in men’s clothes. T-shirts? They’re not attention-grabbing, so have at it!
1. Smoking: I don’t smoke. Tobacco smoke actually makes me gag.
2. A history of over drinking: I don’t drink either; I’m legally underage and in either case I have no interest in the stuff.
3. Vulgarity: shit, crap, fuck, damn, ass.
4. Choice of vulgar or tasteless clothes and accessories: Uh, no.
5. Vulgar jokes or facial expression: I am a huge fan of toilet humor. Also, I can’t make facial expressions? Say whaaaaaaaaaa?
6. Attention-grabbing bearing or appearance: does walking with confidence count?
7. Aggression: uh……. I’m usually not? But I do argue with dumb people on the Internet and have absolutely no shame in calling them out?
8. A poor temper: I totally have this in regards with my brother.
9. Poor dining habits: Sometimes? Like I don’t eat at the same time and I sometimes talk and eat, or I eat in class, or I eat in my room?
6/9
I’m not vulgar enough. 😛
I haz failed!
::cries, wipes snotty nose on back of hand::
I dunno, I have some cleavage-y tshirts that are pretty damn attention grabbing, especially the ones that are in strong colors.
The funny thing is that she’d probably consider me very feminine and ladylike up until I started talking.
I wonder if “knitting in public” would make her brain explode? The knitting is Feminine, especially if it’s for someone else, but doing it in public is drawing attention to oneself (especially if this involves spreading stuff over a seat or table).
Does wearing boots or solid shoes debar one from the ranks of the Feminine? It used to in the 1850s: even going on long walks was side-eyed as unladylike if one wore shoes or boots with heavier soles than the norm. I couldn’t wear dainty, ladylike shoes (never mind heels) even if I had tiny feet.
What if you wear lots of boots but most of them have spiky heels and pointy toes? I guess that probably makes me on of the sluts who’s out to steal her manly man.
(Retches)
Yup. Spiky heels and pointy toes are just Slutty McSlutster boots.
How’s about knee high leather all grommets up the front and nice large chunky high heels?
Well, I light things on fire. Clearly not feminine. In any case, we’ve already established that pecunium is more feminine than I am.
In fact… (this is going to be fun)
1. Smoking: Rumor has it he may have a cigar sometimes, or at least, has had them enough to complain that my clove “cigars” are no such thing (so yes for me and probably no for him, but then again, merely touching such a thing is probably unladylike)
2. A history of over drinking: Pretty sure that’s a yes for both of us.
3. Vulgarity: *dies laughing* Fuck, you were serious? Score another one for both of us (believe it or not, his typing is far less vulgar than his speech)
4. Choice of vulgar or tasteless clothes and accessories: Um? Define tasteless? Idk if I score one, but having seen him in a striped shirt and tartan kilt…
5. Vulgar jokes or facial expression: o.O? Yes? Though I think I’m worse.
6. Attention-grabbing bearing or appearance: Him: kilts; Me: aforementioned boots, semi-business, with tie. So yes for both.
7. Aggression: How is this different from 8? Oh. Fuck. She means “assertive” not “aggressive”, since demanding things, even perfectly reasonable things, is unladylike. So that’s another round of double yeses.
8. A poor temper: Um…does this mean desire to hurt people or actually doing so? Cuz I may know his kilts and DEAR GODS MAN NOT PLAID AND STRIPES but I can’t read his mind, so I’m gonna assume I’m worse on this one considering I may actually fly into a screaming fit if I haven’t enough benzos in me.
9. Poor dining habits: Pecunium, my dear, it’s a dining room table, not a mail collector, laptop stand and yarn organization table. Or maybe it is. In any case, when we’re both done removing the crumbs from our respective beds, lets tally this?
So let’s see, we’ll call it 8 for me and 6 for him (I’m being generous since I’m not a mindreader)
The original questions he managed 6/10, and me…
1) Knitting/Crocheting – No.
2) Baking and cooking – ehh, I can. I rarely do, but I can bake, so score one I guess.
3) Dancing – *dies laughing* yeah I can kinda sorta waltz, otherwise no.
4) Writing about feminine and elegant subjects … Feminine women collaborate and help one another out, so in that way, helping others to be feminine is a very feminine thing to do! – Fuck, feminist Borg score me one huh?
5) Language learning – Um, sort of? My Latin is horrible and it’s the only language I really know. But, seeing how it means I can sort of muddle through basic things in a few others, we’ll call it a yes.
6) Painting or any other sort of visual art – Seeing how I have two programs running solely for coding/design, and half my tabs are Borg related, yeah, score one.
7) Herb or vegetable garden – …I have cacti. That’s basically the opposite right? Or does it count since growing things?
8) Arranging flowers – *cocks head* No. I have a thing against cut flowers.
9) Making soaps – o.O? No.
10) Charity work – let’s see, broke and social anxiety, we can call that a no.
So that gives me… 5 and then -8. I am at -3 femininity points. Meanwhile, Mr. Mango just about breaks even (you can manage to regain a feminine point if you swear that spinning video with the tartan and stripes was an act of laziness not style)
Isn’t making soap sweaty, messy work? I get the sense from the way she talks about her background that she’s never had to do any sort of physical work, “feminine” or otherwise, and her “we have people for that” attitude is being reflected in, say, thinking you can grow food without getting dirt under your nails.
Well, it involves lye, so it isn’t safe in any case.
As for dirt under your nails, I am fucking ecstatic, I found 2′ long rubber gloves in an aquarium catalog! (It’s the little, or in this case sufficiently large, things)
Another list, yay!
1) Knitting/Crocheting – Knitting! Also hand-sewing in years past. Not crocheting, despite my yarn-shop lady’s evil attempts to convert me.
2) Baking and cooking – NO. Not this side of the veil, anyway. Pierce and peel meals are my friends.
3) Dancing – well, even in public twenty years ago (don’t think free-form at a Goth ball counts as ladylike, tho’). Nowadays, nope, except across the veil, and even then it’s sorta free-form bouncing around.
4) Writing about feminine and elegant subjects … Feminine women collaborate and help one another out, so in that way, helping others to be feminine is a very feminine thing to do! – Wut? Elegant subjects? Does drooling in text over Sir’s lovely clothes count?
5) Language learning – ::snort:: I doubt three years of German at high school and one French for Travellers class count, especially since I asked the tutor to translate “Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries” into French.
6) Painting or any other sort of visual art – Used to draw, now do lots’n’lotsa photomuckingabout.
7) Herb or vegetable garden – Ha! This side I don’t garden AT ALL and never have, I’ve just never been interested. Wouldn’t even try it now, considering what horrible things it does to backs and knees. Across the other side, the veggie garden is HIS province, it’s the one bit of the garden I don’t bother about.
8) Arranging flowers – Eww, no. I like flowers growing, not cut.
9) Making soaps – Dafuq?
10) Charity work – Nope. Donations, yes, but I have neither time nor inclination for volunteer work.
Let’s see … two definite points, I’ll give half points for stuff across the veil, so … another 1.5. Maybe a half point for #4?
Heh. 4 out of 9. I’m neither a Lady nor a vulgar scrubber. WHAT AM I WHERE DO I FIT I AM SO CONFUSED
I believe I might make the feminine category … well, sorta.
1) Knitting/Crocheting – Knitting, yes. Crochet not favoured. Tatting too much to learn.
2) Baking and cooking – Good at both. Outstanding sometimes. I even made about half of the wondrous creations in the Women’s Weekly Birthday Cake Book. (An Australian classic of the 80s)
3) Dancing – I’m of the generation that learned all the standard ballroom dancing stuff. From waltz, to tango, to jive, to the really old-fashioned stuff.
4) Writing about feminine and elegant subjects … Not a chance.
5) Language learning – 6 years of French, learned a fair swag of German and Italian for performance purposes, but can’t read a magazine or follow a conversation now.
6) Painting or any other sort of visual art – Nuh. Not a creative bone in my body.
7) Herb or vegetable garden – Lurve getting dirt under my fingernails. Lurve raising my own plants from cuttings and seeds.
8) Arranging flowers – I even won a couple of prizes for flower arranging 50ish years ago. Though I much prefer using flowers from my own garden. Don’t like stuff from florists much.
9) Making soaps – Too fukn dangerous for my tastes. And it’s heavy, heavy work.
10) Charity work – A bit.
However …..
1. Smoking – Like a train … for decades.
2. A history of over drinking – Yup. But it’s more or less history now.
3. Vulgarity – Oh shit, oh fuck, oh poop, oh damn. This one might be a bit of a minus.
4. Choice of vulgar or tasteless clothes and accessories – Sometimes twinset and pearls. Sometimes a bit over the top.
5. Vulgar jokes or facial expression – Who? Me?
6. Attention-grabbing bearing or appearance – Sometimes a lot over the top.
7. Aggression – And bluntness and rudeness.
8. A poor temper – Just. you. try. me. on. a. bad. day.
9. Poor dining habits – Must confess to being very picky about table manners (and table setting).
Guess I’ll have to settle for a minus score.
Again.
OK. If others do this test thingy (which I totally fail)…
1) Knitting/Crocheting – I know the basics of Crocheting… never had the patience for it, though.
2) Baking and cooking – I can do basic stuff but it’s for survival not enjoyment.
3) Dancing – Nope. I was born in the 80s.
4) Writing about feminine and elegant subjects … No.
5) Language learning – 4 years of English plus constant exposure -> I might not be that bad. 6 years of German and I know enough to read, write and follow conversations but I can’t spit out a word. I also read Japanese kana and know some words, and understand a bit of Spanish but those aren’t on any usable levels.
6) Painting or any other sort of visual art – I draw occasionally, and do digital editing/coloring.
7) Herb or vegetable garden – I’m a bane of plantlife.
8) Arranging flowers – Nope.
9) Making soaps – Hell no.
10) Charity work – I was forced to volunteer, but I don’t think that counts.
And the other one.
1. Smoking – No.
2. A history of over drinking – I’ve one.
3. Vulgarity – Yeah. More in Hungarian, though. I learned it from my mom (she was a scrapyard manager).
4. Choice of vulgar or tasteless clothes and accessories – I’m the jeans and t-shirt kind of person, so… more bland actually.
5. Vulgar jokes or facial expression – No.
6. Attention-grabbing bearing or appearance – I can get LOUD.
7. Aggression – Blunt, rude, occasionally vulgar.
8. A poor temper – Yeah.
9. Poor dining habits – I don’t own a table. I can’t be picky about table manners.
And to add even more not feminine and elegant things about me: I’m a tabletop and retro gamer, Linux user, reader of comicbooks in all forms, and obsessive fangirl.
A friend just made me a soap in the shape of a D20. Is that feminine?
Dunno, but sound awesome! ❤v❤ (Even if I’m more of a D10 person myself.)
Soap in the shape of a D20? That’s pretty cool.
The other quiz:
1. Knitting/crochet: don’t know how, so no.
2. Baking/cooking: … I have to?
3. Dancing: terribly uncoordinated, but I can move. .5 points
4. Feminine and elegant subjects: fuck no. I like mocking and debunking stupid people on my blog, and my journal’s not for the delicate reader.
5. Language learning: … that’s a GE requirement.
6. Painting/visual art: I did acting and I doodle.
7. Herb/veggie garden: I don’t have a green thumb, nor do I have room in my apartment, so no.
8. Flower arranging: a little bit, but with fake flowers. 0.5 pts.
9. Making soap: does it look like I want to set off my apartment’s sensitive smoke alarms? No.
10. Charity work: I did volunteer at the public library. Does that count?
5/10
I’m -1 feminine. Damn it, I’m not fucking vulgar enough. Fuck!
Quiz
1. Knitting? I can, but I don’t want to. 0
2. Cooking? Definitely, and very well. 1
3. Dancing? Yep. Years of ballet, apparently the most feminine thing ever*. 1
4. LOL. Again, I could, but I don’t want to. 0
5. Language learning? Dude, I grew up on 4 different continents. 1
6. Does photography count? If so, 1
7. Nope. Ironically this is partly because I don’t like getting my hands dirty. 0
8. I’ve done ikebana? 1
9. Let’s leave that to the professionals, shall we? 0
10. Yep. 1
6/10. Apparently I’m more than averagely feminine, and we haven’t even started talking about clothes.
* The fact that she thinks this suggests that she’s never done ballet herself. I think we’re seeing a pattern here.
I don’t knit or sew — so, no points?
Drink? Hell yes. But when I do it, I always make sure my pinky finger stays up…so it shouldn’t matter ; So I can score a point for daintiness, no?
Smoke? Yep. Zero points.
Language — some shoddy Italian. Half point.
Dancing? Not these days. When I was very goth I’d bust out a lot of Burning Windmill, but others goths/ex-goths here can tell you how minimal that is. Half point?
Cooking. Yes, and I’m awesome at it too. Baking? Not so much. Half point?
Foul Language? Oh balls yes, when I can get away with it. In mixed company, not too much. A third of a point?
Make-up! Yes! Love it to death! I have that in common with my friend Steve.
1. Knitting/crocheting: Yes, and I encourage my male friends to try them too. Great for stress, and you get wearables!
2. Cooking: Yes. Baking? Not so much…too fussy, and too sweet for the most part. Unless you’re talking bread, in which case…yes.
3. Dancing: Not nearly enough, alas.
4. Writing about feminine and elegant subjects? Bwahahahahaha…no. I do write, but I avoid those things like the Pepto-pink curse they are.
5. Language learning: Yes, and got very good at it, since I was an English major at uni. It was that or take dry linguistics courses. I know now about a dozen, give or take, and discovered I am a great autodidact. I picked Old Norse, Beowulf, and the like. Not a bit “feminine”, but fascinating and good practice for the book-length translations I do now. My latest is a bloody and damn difficult history of the Mexican-American War, complete with mucho nutrido fuego. Guaranteed to give Little Miss Manners the willies.
6. Painting and visual arts: Haven’t done either since grade school, but enjoyed abstract quite a bit.
7. Herb or veggie garden: Yes to both, since I like to eat, and can’t afford to buy grocery-store “organic” shit. But lady, you ain’t gardened for real until you’ve dug heavy clay, like I do. Do you even COMPOST?
8. Flower arranging: FUCK NO. I leave my flowers on the plant and let them arrange themselves if they’re so inclined.
9. Making soap: Would like to, but can’t be bothered. Will gladly buy others’ homemade soaps, though.
10. Charity work: I’m a socialist, so I’m all for anything that makes charity ultimately unnecessary. I’m gonna go with NO.
Final score: Don’t know, and can’t be arsed to tally. Or care.
Lard, Proper Lady is the best blog ever. Its been awhile since I’ve actually lol’d at something online. Please stop whatever you are currently doing and read Is watching action movies unfeminine?
Anyway…
1) Knitting/Crocheting – I’d love to but don’t have the patience. Many of my fellow phone-sex workers were crocheters though. Upon quitting I had a rather large supply of headset cozies.
2) Baking and cooking – Yes, I rock this. Learned form my dad.
3) Dancing – I think of myself as an awesome dancer, yes. You should have seen me at the NIN goodbye concert a few years ago.
4) Writing about feminine and elegant subjects – I used to have a cooking blog, and my first entry was ‘Home-cooked Good Fucking Duck’, so yes.
5) Language learning – I can order some stuff at Dim Sum, and I can do some swears in Italian, Polish.
6) Painting or any other sort of visual art – I’m a web designer.
7) Herb or vegetable garden – Would love to!
8) Arranging flowers – nope.
9) Making soaps – I bought a book once on soap making, which taught me I can’t be arsed to make soap. I make my own deoderant though, does that count?
10) Charity work – when I can I donate to some, but no active work (yet)
However …..
1. Smoking – Used to, now use an e-cig. It’s a big stainless steel thing.
2. A history of over drinking – Used to, now I only over-drink very occasionally.
3. Vulgarity – When I was in Grade… 5 or so? I had a ‘rock band’ with my friends called The Sexorcists, and we re-wrote popular songs to be dirty versions. Things haven’t changed all that much, so yes. I likes me my swearsies.
4. Choice of vulgar or tasteless clothes and accessories – As I sense that me wearing sweats most of the day would count, then yes.
5. Vulgar jokes or facial expression – I have no idea what a vulgar facial expression is. If it’s anything like what my face did when reading her blog, then yes.
6. Attention-grabbing bearing or appearance – I am assertive and confident, so probably. I also used to do improv and would guess that counts.
7. Aggression – Physical? No.
8. A poor temper – I am more likely to get exasperated, and then extremely snotty/snarky.
9. Poor dining habits – I use utensils most of the time? I eat from a plate? Not sure where she’s going here.
I’m glad people have gotten so much enjoyment out of that Proper Lady blog. 😉
Oh my god, the comments on the action moving post.
It burns….!