So some Swedish movie theaters have decided to institute a new rating system to let viewers know whether or not the films they show pass the Bechdel Test — that is, if at any point in the film two female characters have a conversation about something other than a man.
Over in the Men’s Rights subreddit, a fella with the classy handle classypedobear takes strong exception to this terrible affront to human decency. His argument?
Wait. WHAT IS WRONG WITH TALKING ABOUT KITTENS?
Thanks, AgainstMensRights subreddit!
I didn’t see Pacific Rim but it sounds more like what we get all the time in movies, where there’s allowed to be one female character who’s important as long as there really is only one and she doesn’t interact with other women. Having a detailed backstory about her being abused doesn’t make that any better, imo, especially if that’s going to be your only significant female character.
I had totally forgotten about the cat shit/toxoplasmosis conversation in Trainspotting.
I dunno, I still think that Fargo is a great film, and feminist-ish, even though it’s a “woman in a man’s world” film with “one well-written female character.”
But it’s an exceptional film in all senses of the word.
I think the Mako Mori test is effectively useless because applying it inevitably turns into a big discussion of what qualifies as an arc and what is or isn’t supporting another character. The utility of the Bechdel test is that it’s relatively objective.
Mako Mori? Really? Maybe I wasn’t paying attention to the movie, but she really didn’t seem to stand out as a female character. I didn’t see any gender-role non-conformity from her.
Woman can humans?! I don’t even…
Well, you’ve got various animated movies that are about kittens. Like Oliver & Company.
Dvarghundspossen: There was a Sinfest strip along those lines shortly after Tatsuya realized feminism was actually a good thing, in which the newly-feminist Monique is watching the TV and alternating between disparaging the show’s patriarchal influences and squealing about how good it is.
Bechdel, Mako Mori and other ‘tests’ are really more about how privilege functions than anything else, I think. It’s not so much a critique of the film that fails it, as it is a critique of the society that creates so many films that fail it.
****
I’m trying to figure out if one of my favorite horror flicks passes or not. Trick or Treat is a really cool, well-done movie. It’s got a string of interlocking stories about one town that pretty much goes wild on Halloween. The story arcs criss-cross, making it one of those ones you need to watch twice to get all the interactions.
One of the story arcs features a group of kids–I’m hard-pressed to guess ages, here, but I think pre-teen covers it pretty well. But the kids are led by one girl, and they’re targeting another for their rather cruel prank (warning to anyone who is curious–there’s some harsh treatment of neuroatypical kids in this film, but it’s not played for laughs, and they do get some measure of revenge).
The interesting thing about Mako Mori, IMO, is the gaze aspect: We get a little female gaze going on, which is very, very rare.
Huh. The only big recent-ish films tagged with “kitten” on IMDB, besides Trainspotting, are:
Wedding Crashers
Hellboy
Drag Me to Hell
The Ugly Truth (2009)
Puss in Boots
Wag the Dog
Half Nelson
Sunshine Cleaning
Dante’s Peak
I’ve seen the top 3 films but don’t remember the kitten subplots.
Here’s the kitten scene from Wag the Dog:
I think it passes, though the “kitten” they use is clearly a full grown cat!
Did anyone link to this yet? It’s a Bechdel Test database of films (and discussions about whether or not they passed).
http://bechdeltest.com/
Doctor Who episode “Gridlock.”
“the Man Boobz test: Two male characters in a movie having a conversation about a kitten”
Two men in Boondock Saints talk about a cat (though it ends rather gruesomely!)
He does, kind of, have a point. A movie with a strong female character, even a lead character, who doesn’t talk to another woman, wouldn’t pass, while movies with 2 minor, but named, female characters who have one line of dialogue unrelated to men would, even if that’s their only lines. Personally, I think the Bechdel test combined with the Mako Mori test would be a better standard. If it passes one, gets a C, A for both, F for neither
@katz: Does it count if one of the men in question is a Time Lord, and the other is a cat-person? 😉
@David: “Women in man’s world” movies can be good, and can definitely be feminist-y…but it’s still a tired trope. Plus, it’s a recipe for Strong Female Character disaster…though it doesn’t always end up in that.
@LBT: It’s the same with queer people, really. You usually get one…MAYBE two, and if there are two, then they’re definitely dating each other. (Unless you’re talking about a queer cinema film). – And yeah, as you say, women are basically half the population…so no excuse. So, yeah, I don’t think either test is necessarily indicative of adequate representation.
RE: CassandraSays
I didn’t see Pacific Rim but it sounds more like what we get all the time in movies,
It is slightly better, but that’s it: slightly. I mean, I liked that movie and clicked with it enough to write crossover fanfiction for it (which is very unusual for me), but I’m a really cynical bastard with high standards for my media. I know creators who I can pay for aweome poetry about trans multi people of color being superheroes, so having a few POC running around in giant robots doesn’t wow me much.
And I really need to see Fargo.
RE: Skyal
*points to Freemage’s comment* The test was supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek reflection on patterns in society. I don’t really see a need for high-ranking and thorough testing. I mean, Twilight STILL passes your amped-up test.
RE: HeatherN
You usually get one…MAYBE two, and if there are two, then they’re definitely dating each other. (Unless you’re talking about a queer cinema film).
<.< *clutches large stock of queer comics* NEVER TAKE THEM AWAY.
Would John Waters’ films pass the Bechdel test? Or do female characters actually have to be played by real-life women?
(Actually, thinking about Waters films that don’t star Divine, I’m pretty sure that Serial Mom would qualify.)
I was referring to Sweden’s new rating system. Passing the Bechdel tests gets a movie an “A” from what I’ve read. And it shouldn’t
@Skyal
He only has a point if you’re very, very charitable with your interpretation of what he means. I mean, his point wasn’t that it’s more important that it shows women being capable and intelligent than that they have a single conversation about something other than a man. It was that women don’t need to talk to each other. I’ll grant that a really good film with women who never speak to one another but portrays them as fully rounded human beings is better than a film with a pair of two dimensional optional love interests who happen to speak briefly about how bad it was when the big bad burned the castle. I just don’t think that’s what he was getting at.
Oh, I gotcha, Skyal. Yeah, I admit, it is kinda weird to me that they’d choose THAT for a rating system. O_o I mean… can’t we kinda expect better? I guess not.
I find the comments on the article funny.
The new rating system has been launched by cinemas.
The very top comment?
Independent businesses choosing to introduce a system – if a poorly thought out system – highlighting gender imbalance in films = nanny state intervention.
More importantly, proper films are not outlawed!!
Seriously. Guys. Get a fucking grip. Stop freaking out over tiny steps in the right direction. Nobody’s saying we can’t have war films or crime dramas anymore. Nobody’s even saying you need to write two women into the film just to have them talk about kittens or babies. It’s just a few private businesses deciding to let people know a little bit about the content. OH NOES! TEH ENDZ AM NYE! ABADDON SHEP! ABADDON SHEP!!
“proper films are now outlawed”
Things I talked to my totally real female friends about this week: Game of Thrones, Battlestar Galatica, organizational change management, Syria, tater tot hotdish, snow, why my car is making that funny sound, dogs (better than kittens?), their jobs, my job, water heaters, mouse control methods (kitten adjacent?), football, roller derby, art, bankruptcy, church politics, cigars, The Heat, the housing market and yes, kittens, No babies, though.
Sometimes I wonder if MRAs just need to get out more and meet a different women You know, if all the women they know are so horrible.
Is there any list of movies that doesn’t pass the reverse Bechdel test?