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Elizabeth Vargas checks into rehab; A Voice for Menners gloat, moralize

He's so concerned.
He’s very concerned.

So A Voice for Men, classy joint that it is, “reported” yesterday that Elizabeth Vargas of ABC’s 20/20, who interviewed Paul Elam for a 20/20 piece that has yet to air, has checked into rehab in order to deal with her alcoholism. The general reaction of commenters there ranged from “ha ha” to “well, maybe once she’s cured she’ll see how oppressed we men really are.” Those aren’t exact quotes. The exact quotes are below.

Here’s one especially classy exchange. Note the upvotes.

nick says	  November 6, 2013 at 9:49 PM	  More box wine for us. Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 Log in to Reply      Laddition says	      November 7, 2013 at 7:16 AM	      I think that she preferred Chateau Bile, all the real classy feminists do. It’s an acquired taste, but they suck it down like there’s no tomorrow, apparently.

In another comment a bit too long to conveniently screenshot, Laddition explained his position in a bit more detail, winning a few upvotes in the process:

I DO NOT CARE

She doesn’t care about me or my gender, in fact she intended to do material harm to my brothers and I, she has no right to expect any better response from me than that.

If she drains the poison from her soul and comes back as a better person and does better for the other half of humanity, I may have some encouragement for her. Until then; none, nada, nietski, sweet fa.

And why do I hold such an uncharitable view?

Because I think that until women in general understand that there are costs (indifference from men) to their feminist acts, they’ll never see a reason to change. At the moment the best many of them’ll do is cluck at what the ‘extreme’ feminists say and keep taking the goodies provided for them by such harpies over the backs of men.

Men don’t have to hate women, a world of male indifference will be a cold place to be a woman. If you want to be loved and cared for, try being lovable, at the very least.

In a followup comment, he added:

And I hope that the interview with Paul was part of the breakdown and subsequent recognition of the darkness in her own twisted heart. May she benefit from the lesson by going and doing no more evil unto men.

Even the putatively “sympathetic” comments quickly turned into smug little “told-you-sos.”

Robert St. Estephe says	  November 6, 2013 at 9:43 PM	  Alcoholism is a serious problem. She has my sympathy. Also, as feminists frequently point out, chronic drunkenness often leads to poor choices that later are regretted. Perhaps sobriety will help Ms. Vargas to become interested in exploring human rights in a more well-informed and professional manner.

One commenter even managed to work in a snide reference to Sheryl Sandberg’s “Lean In” slogan:

August Løvenskiolds says	  November 6, 2013 at 10:04 PM	  Perhaps the shock of having to confront her denial about how feminism hurts both men and women helped her realize also the role that alcohol was playing in covering up that denial.  She had done the “lean in” thing; the pressures drove her to lean into a bottle.  I hope her recovery is a positive to her life.

Elam’s own comment on the story was a small masterpiece of passive-aggressive faux-sympathy:

Paul Elam says	  November 6, 2013 at 10:28 PM	  Alcoholism is a monster to deal with. And in your 50′s? It is brutally hard to make the kind of internal changes and personal growth required for sustained sobriety.  I know that Vargas has ill intent against me. And if the timing on this new story is correct, I was most likely interviewed by her when she was close to the bottom of a downward spiral into the addiction. But I do wish her success at beating this, She has a family and children that will only be hurt if she does not prevail.  I hope she makes it, and I hope the necessary gaze into the mirror that recovery from alcoholism demands helps her find a little compassion for people she has so far refused to understand.

That’s right, Paul. It’s all about you. And the only reason she was troubled by your hateful shit is because she was a drunkard with no “compassion” for poor oppressed assholes like you.

Elam was once, he says, an addiction counselor. Given his incredible narcissism and clear lack of empathy for at least half of the human race, if not the vast majority of it, it is rather hard to see how he could have been any good at that job.

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not that guy
not that guy
7 years ago

Yeah, if that’s your idea of gloating from Paul Elam, and 5 upvotes is significant in your life, then, whatever dude.

You can make some pretty strong cases at times, but this is yet another premature ejaculation on your part.

Bonelady
Bonelady
7 years ago

Wait, the piece hasn’t even aired and they are sure that it will be negative? These guys seem to be gluttons for punishment — not to mention big on schadenfreud. Scary.

CassandraSays
7 years ago

If you want to be loved and cared for, try being lovable, at the very least.

But I already am loved and cared for by the men in my life, and they all know I’m a feminist.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: not that guy

The damn post hasn’t been up for 24 hours. How many upvotes can we expect? And what would qualify as gloating, in your opinion?

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Also, WTF. There are a LOT of people who have ill intent towards me. There are a lot of people I find reprehensible. I have no internal conflict over saying, “I am sorry they are dealing with X; no one should have to go through that, and I hope they get better.” Because I have met precious few people who became nicer and less assholey in times of intense duress.

To try and take someone’s tragedy as laughs is really gross.

entropistanon
7 years ago

@not that guy: The gloating is in the fact that he has made her problem all about him. The subtext of this little blurb is that he feels vindicated that one of the many women who disagree with him only did it because she was a drunkard and bitter.

From the OP: “Because I think that until women in general understand that there are costs (indifference from men) to their feminist acts, they’ll never see a reason to change.”

“… a world of male indifference will be a cold place to be a woman.”

Dude, your love and attention is really not that important. In fact, (and I know this might come as somewhat of a shock) women have their own lives, and they are quite capable of living a life divorced from male attention, and even being PRODUCTIVE despite not being lovable to you. Just ask the women that you think are “fat” or “ugly” or “useless”.

Still around and doing stuff, aren’t they?

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

Elam: I’m sorry that you’re suffering, I hope that you’ll be okay so that you can come to your senses and not think of me as a misogynistic a-hole.

I can’t say I’m shocked.

MaudeLL
7 years ago

About the ‘threat’ of indifference…

Please do. I long for the day MRAs (and mgtows) will finally be indifferent towards women. For now, I just see a bunch of people who are *obsessed* with women.

entropistanon
7 years ago

In my post above, I just wanted to make clear: I didn’t mean that Vargas’ motivation for disagreeing with Elam was ACTUALLY that she was a “drunkard” and “bitter”, but that’s what Elam PERCEIVES it to be.

Sorry if that was worded wrong, I was being careless.

Hyena Girl
7 years ago

It really is just all about them, isn’t it? MRA’s are a self licking ice cream cone.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Out of curiosity, how many folks here, on hearing about Schwyzer’s latest meltdown, rubbed their hands together and went, “maybe now you’ll be a better feminist!”

Nobody? Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Karalora
7 years ago

If you want to be loved and cared for, try being lovable, at the very least.

To these guys, wanting to be treated like a human being makes a woman unlovable. Says it all, really.

Tracy
7 years ago

Also – huge eeeek at Elam ever being an addictions counsellor. My BIL is one. Treatment centres (good ones) are choosy about who they employ and… well, I just can’t see it.

PJ
PJ
7 years ago

she has no right to expect any better response from me than that.

If she drains the poison from her soul and comes back as a better person and does better for the other half of humanity, I may have some encouragement for her

I think I missed the part where Vargas made a personal appeal to Laddition for his sympathy and support.

pecunium
7 years ago

So That Guy seems to demand Snidely Whiplash levels of mustache twirling while chortling, Mwuahhahah! to call it gloating.

Never mind that the subtext of this is, “thankk goodness people think she’s a soak, so we can say it was all an alcohol-fueled hatchet job, and any way we knew she had it in for us, now we know why”.

Which raises the question, if he was so certain it was going to be a hatchet job why consent to the interview?

Oh, right, he figured he could get attention, and that would cause people to come look at his “satire” and presto, Feminism is ended.

moldybrehd
7 years ago

I was actually surprised at Elam’s lack of vitriol, but then I realized that, until the 20/20 special comes out, they could update the content, and not in his favour.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
7 years ago

I’M GOING TO POST A 500 WORD RANT TO TELL YOU HOW MUCH I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THIS!! I AM INDIFFERENT.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

Also, as feminists frequently point out, chronic drunkenness often leads to poor choices which are later regretted.

Is that a thing that feminists frequently point out?

HeatherN
7 years ago

@CassandraSays: It’s almost as if being a feminist doesn’t automatically make one unlovable. It’s almost as if you have other priorities besides making sure people like. Funny, that.

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

Viscaria – I think it’s a reference to “slut having drunk sex, and then reports it as rape the next day to not lose face”.

Remember, men are being horribly oppressed when feminists educate people on consent, cause that means they can’t fuck the passed out drunk girl. *nodnod*

CassandraSays
7 years ago

By “feminists” I assume he means “some woman who I saw saying something that annoyed me”.

Ally S
7 years ago

Compassion for…who again?

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

These guys really, REALLY don’t understand what “don’t take advantage of drunk people” mean, do they? Yech.

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

LBT – It’s not like they have a good record of such. See: “WAAHHH THE DON’T BE THAT GUY CAMPAIGN CALLED ME A POTENTIAL RAPIST!!!” and “What do you mean I can’t fuck drunk people?! Are you calling me a rapist? MY BONER MUST NOT BE IMPEDED!”

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

Men don’t have to hate women, a world of male indifference will be a cold place to be a woman. If you want to be loved and cared for, try being lovable, at the very least.

“We are the wooooorrrrrld,
We are the childreeeeeeen,
We are gonna fuck their shit
Right up through the ceiliiiiiin’!

And there are terrible things,
Like comedies with funny dads
And sometimes
You can’t
Abandon your childreeeeeen

We are the wooooorrrrrld,
We are the childreeeeeeen,
We are gonna fuck their shit
Right up through the ceiliiiiiin’!

And there are terrible things,
Like boys not beating girls at ev’rything.
We’re gonna make-it-right
We’re gonna show-them-now
With in-dif-fereeeeence

SING IT! SING TOGETHER NOW!

We are the wooooorrrrrld,
We are the childreeeeeeen,
We are gonna fuck their shit
Right up through the ceiliiiiiin’!”

*waves a candle*

katz
7 years ago

SIGH.

For contrast, here is the Box Turtle Bulletin’s response after one of NOM’s directors was injured in an accident.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Viscaria — I think he’s making a very oblique // dog whistle claim about “false accusations”. Since in his twisted worldview, women have drunk sex, regret it in the morning, and call it rape, and feminists are all about sending the poor innocent man to jail.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Totally ninja’ed, I have to learn to hit refresh!

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: katz

Hey, sadface! We got your present, but I’m like the one person on earth who doesn’t have iTunes, and I really don’t think this borrowed computer can handle the installation. (It is a POS and has refused to install any new programs or devices in months.) Do you or any other Boobzers know if I can get my prezzy without having to be devoured by Apple software through someone else’s computer?

cloudiah
7 years ago

They really think this has something to do with 20/20 not airing the piece on the MRM? In addition to being asshats, they really do not understand how the world works.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
7 years ago

They really think this has something to do with 20/20 not airing the piece on the MRM? In addition to being asshats, they really do not understand how the world works.

Remember, these are people who think that THEY stalled the reauthorization of VAWA because obstructionist Republicans blocked its passage due to the addition of protections for gay and immigrant women.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Good point, Chie, good point.

La Strega
7 years ago

Is it possible researching the MRA drove Vargas to drink?

Just kidding. Sort of.

I respect Elizabeth Vargas, and I am confident with a little help she’ll get this in hand.

booburry
7 years ago

Elam as an addiction counselor is terrifying. I have been in and out of rehab and many people, including myself at times, just want someone to blame for their addiction. If you constantly blame someone else for everything that is wrong it can be incredibly hard to take the steps needed to better yourself. I just imagine him egging people on about how it is their ex-wife’s fault or their female boss that is the problem. Or if he counseled women? I can’t imagine it.

katz
7 years ago

Hey, sadface! We got your present, but I’m like the one person on earth who doesn’t have iTunes, and I really don’t think this borrowed computer can handle the installation. (It is a POS and has refused to install any new programs or devices in months.) Do you or any other Boobzers know if I can get my prezzy without having to be devoured by Apple software through someone else’s computer?

Aww, I’m sorry! I wasn’t sure if you needed itunes to receive it or not. I don’t want to make you get itunes because it totally sucks but it was the only way I was aware of to send that sort of thing.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

I feel so tormented! 🙁 And I feel bad for being unable to accept your (totally awesome) present!

All the sad emotes.

toujoursgai
7 years ago

@Tracy

Also – huge eeeek at Elam ever being an addictions counsellor.

Yeah, that got a serious “nopetopus” reaction from me.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
7 years ago

Not That Guy, that premature ejaculation joke was a real stretch. It was a long stretch. It was a long, hard stretch. Also, he didn’t even say Elam was gloating. Also, you came too early.

This comment is also about penises.

Anyway, I for one hope that Hugo Schwyzer becomes less of a toxic, manipulative, abusive human being as a result of his trials, but that’s probably too much to hope for. I mostly hope he’ll just shut up.

Wait a minute. Can you hear that? That distant quaking, as if the earth were shaking only slightly, but all around you? That’s the sound of Vargas quaking in her boots at the thought of Laddition’s ostentatious indifference.

katz
7 years ago

My immediate reaction is “Argenti will know what to do.”

Even though there is no particular reason for that to be true.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

I second MaudeLL, who said:

“About the ‘threat’ of indifference…

Please do. I long for the day MRAs (and mgtows) will finally be indifferent towards women. For now, I just see a bunch of people who are *obsessed* with women.”

Yes. Indifference would be great. Actually going their own way? That would be great. I really hope this isn’t an idle “threat.”

And seconding the WTF?!? to Paul Elam once being an addiction counselor.

And way to stay classy, not that guy!

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Has Elam ever discussed how his history as a counselor is related to his activism? Did he bring (or does he claim to have brought) a men’s rights perspective to his counseling? That’d be horrifying.

I wish Vargas all the best. I hope she has a lot of supportive people in her life, and doesn’t have to hear shit like these guys are spewing.

@Karalora

To these guys, wanting to be treated like a human being makes a woman unlovable. Says it all, really.

Also, being unlovable makes you not deserve to be treated like a human being.

@Pecunium

Oh, right, he figured he could get attention, and that would cause people to come look at his “satire” and presto, Feminism is ended.

You give him more credit than I do. My version would have gone something like ” that would cause people to come look at his “satire” and get all mad about “misandry” and give him more donations and interviews and attention.”

@Viscaria

Also, as feminists frequently point out, chronic drunkenness often leads to poor choices which are later regretted.

Is that a thing that feminists frequently point out?

Right? I thought that was the MRA “it wasn’t rape” party line.

scarlettpipstrelle
7 years ago

OMG you keep coming up with better and better pictures of Elam.

kittehserf
7 years ago

If you want to be loved and cared for, try being lovable, at the very least.

Quoth Paul “bash a violent bitch” “fucking their shit up gives me an erection” “they’re fucking begging to be raped” “vote not guilty at all rape trials” Elam.

Pots and kettles.

N’thing the “male indifference” comments. I don’t want romantic or sexual attention from men (or anyone else). The very idea makes my skin crawl. Because of course Paulyboy isn’t talking about friendship between equals, or simple human decency, is he? Can’t have that idea infecting his maggotty little brain.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Because women can’t love or care for other women, no way. Only MEN can do such a thing! Otherwise we’ll all… be jerks? Or something?

kittehserf
7 years ago

And of course men can only care for women conditionally, if those women are Stepford Wives lovable enough.

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

All that a woman does? For a man.

If she decides to wear heels, it’s for a dude. If she chooses not to, it’s ALSO for a dude. Become an alcoholic? A dude is involved. Go into rehab? Oh, you should thank a dude!

*roll eyes* *raises lots of sarcasm hands*

pecunium
7 years ago

emilygoddess: You give him more credit than I do. My version would have gone something like ” that would cause people to come look at his “satire” and get all mad about “misandry” and give him more donations and interviews and attention.”

I was being sarcastic. I think he went, “TV? I’ve made the big time!”, and no further thought took place until he was done with the interview and a smidgeon of self-awareness surfaced to make him say, “shit, I look like a douch. Those fucking women set me up.”

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

My immediate reaction is “Argenti will know what to do.”

Even though there is no particular reason for that to be true.

Well, if one of you would clue me in on what’s going on, I might 🙂 (just no more PHP, dear gods no more PHP today)