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Turns out VICE made a video about that Men’s Rights rally in Toronto. GO WATCH IT.

This is not an embedded video, so don't click on it.
This is not an embedded video, so don’t click on it.

I don’t know how I missed it, but a couple of weeks back Vice posted a short video about that EARTH-SHATTERINGLY HISTORIC Men’s Rights rally in Toronto that captured the attention of the world a tiny fraction of a percentage of people in the world (including the people at it and readers of this blog) a little over a month ago.

Alas, WordPress won’t let me embed the video here, but you all need to go look at it. Not only does it capture pretty well what a dinky event it was, but it also contains a bunch of mini-interviews with some A Voice for Men folks that are rather revealing.

The most revealing one of the bunch starts about 2:40 into the video, when AVFM’s Suzanne McCarley explains that

Men, as a class, have never ever oppressed women, as a class. Men have always protected and provided for women. And protected them from oppression from others.

From others? What kind of others? Like, space aliens?

Women have never objected to this, and in fact have always been grateful because it’s how they survived. It is only in the last few hundred years when women of privileged class who don’t even know what they’re being protected from feel disadvantaged because they’re not comfortable with the level of protection they have.

Wow. A few hundred years? Sometimes people accuse MRAs of wanting to take us back to the 1950s. McCarley apparently wants to take us back to the 1750s.

They don’t even understand what they’re being protected from.

Wolves? Sharks? Dishpan hands? Space aliens?

They have no concept how dangerous the world is for them but gosh they’re just not happy because, you know, the males in the family tell them what to do and make all the decisions for them and control all the money. That’s not oppression. That’s protection.

Wow. So I guess slaves and prisoners are the most protected classes of all.

It’s what kept our species alive and what built … [she gestures at the park and the buildings around it] this beautiful city.

Wait. I thought Jefferson Starship built this city. On rock ‘n’ roll.

Anyway, there’s also some footage of a speech about the evil oppression of white men given by an unknown speaker at the rally. He also complains that men working for the government are men who’ve had “their things cut off and are toeing the politically correct line.” (Hopefully after the bleeding has stopped.)

There’s an interview with Paul Elam, who for some reason looks like he’s wearing mascara (which I’m pretty sure he isn’t). He delivers this puzzling pronouncement:

Looking at men in government and saying they have all the power is like looking at women in grocery stores and saying they have all the food.

Not only is this way more revealing about gender inequality than Elam may  realize, but it’s also a tad ironic, because Elam not that long ago used (unreliable) data about how women “control” most consumer spending — that is, they do most of the shopping — in order to argue (twice!) that women were the ones primarily responsible for destroying the environment.

There are assorted other bits of misinformation and ignorance and just plain old bigotry from the MRAs.

There’s also some commentary from the counterprotesters that made me wince. No, MRAs aren’t all Marc Lepines waiting to happen. They’re shitty enough people as it is; you don’t have to compare them all to a misogynist mass murderer to make your point. And in fact, you undercut yourself with that kind of rhetoric. Focus on what they actually say and do. It’s bad enough.

And the “racist, sexist, anti-gay” chant? Drop that. MRAs are, for the most part, driven by misogyny — not by other bigotries.  Yes, some are racist, including one of the speakers featured on this very video, but that’s not the driving force for most of them. Some are homophobic, but that’s not the driving force for most of them. Some are transphobic — including Elam himself — but that’s not a central issue for most of them.

It’s worth pointing out these other bigotries, but to make these issues the centerpiece of your counterprotest is to miss the point — it would be a bit like attacking the Ku Klux Klan as “sexist and racist.” I’m sure plenty of KKKers are sexist as hell, but with the Klan racism really is the main thing; with MRAs, misogyny is.

And in this case it gave AVFM’s Karen Straughan the opportunity to appear (at least for a moment) like a reasonable person by pointing out that she in fact is not straight.

Anyway, watch the video. It’s amazing.

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augochlorella
augochlorella
6 years ago

Oh golly. I was competing last weekend and was catching up on homework all week, so I just now read through all of the comments of this post. This new website sounds really cool. I thought you were all joking about it at first, like with manboobz castle and manboobz island.

But to bring it back to the Vice article, was anyone as horrified by this part as I was?

One woman told me that her daughter had made a false rape accusation, but she declined to be interviewed about it because her husband, the subject of an ongoing court case and investigation, wouldn’t give her permission to speak on camera due to risk of incrimination.

The worst case scenario here is just so awful. It’s horrible enough to be raped by your father and receive no support from your mother, but can you imagine your parents parading your rape around as evidence of the frequency of false accusations?

This breaks my heart so much.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Chibigodzilla — I’ll email you the HTML/CSS side of things when I get a chance, I’m currently swearing at PHP! As for the tags and such staying viable, not a problem, seeing how this is troll censoring!

We’re talking this sort of text btw. Like, the actual comment I am typing. Not the name or date or such, but the user input part. So code would be limited and other than being eaten by the blockquote monster big time, generally not terribly important in light of being dumb enough to get disemvoweled in the first place 🙂

Also, you’re awesome, thank you!

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: augo

D:

D8

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

So what does it look like now? I’m curious to see.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Alice — one of these will be upside down, but my iPad SOMETIMES flips them, so I figured I’d just upload it in both directions 🙂

That’s an iPad photo of my mac because I cannot for the life of me figure out how to screen cap in Vista with a mac keyboard!

http://oi40.tinypic.com/2emzeom.jpg

http://oi42.tinypic.com/ipa6io.jpg

And it only took about 22 hours and a lot of swearing, but I have a tag cloud generated based on what category the post is in. That makes the hardest part of the silly/serious split FINALLY FUCKING DONE!!

kittehserf
6 years ago

They’re both upside down, Argenti! 😀

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

How in the ever loving fuck…

kittehserf
6 years ago

Could it have uploaded the same pic twice?

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Only if it failed to save my rotating it! Probably decided to flip one of them and not both >.<

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

Argenti – Wait, Mac keyboards don’t have a PrtSc button? O_o

Athywren
Athywren
6 years ago

>>
<<
Looks a bit fishy to me!
^^
Srsly tho, looks good. 🙂

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
6 years ago

I like the convenience of a “like” button to signal general approval of a comment, but honestly, I don’t like what it does to my head. I get all competitive over who has more Likes on their comments. I’d much prefer no up or down votes or like and dislike buttons if you can avoid it.

You’re doing amazing work, Argenti!

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

Honestly, I don’t know if I like “like” buttons. I don’t really use them myself.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Thanks guys! 🙂

And I’m not terribly fond of the idea of like buttons // up/down votes. We’ve discussed in here occasionally and consensus always seems to be that we already run the risk of having an “elite crew” or whatever the MRAs call us, and that it sorta encourages just pushing the button instead of commenting.

I need to look for a flag as inappropriate button though, that idea I like.

(And yes Athywren, it’s a bit fishy … y’all start findng me furry art that’s graphics like that and I’ll get it set up with our other overlords!)

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

And no, I don’t have that button. OSX has a built in app that does something similar, but better. Can select and ‘cap that, or timed selection. No button though.

katz
6 years ago

We have a pretty longstanding consensus that we don’t like the Like/Dislike mechanic: It ties into the old policing dynamic we were talking about previously where it encourages people to attempt to silence anything they disagree with and doesn’t encourage actual conversation.

pecunium
6 years ago

I dilsike comment “voting”.

I also hate threaded comments, and am not much for forums. I’d really like to have one comment stream, no pages.

kittehserf
6 years ago

What sort of graphic are you looking for, Argenti? Simple silhouette or line drawing?

kittehserf
6 years ago

Definitely no like/dislike buttons as far as I’m concerned, and no threading comments. I think forums would be a waste of time (we don’t even use ’em here much).

cloudiah
6 years ago

Agree on not wanting like/dislike or up/down, and I HATE THREADED COMMENTS WITH THE FIRE OF A THOUSAND REALLY ANGRY SUNS.

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

Threaded comments?

kittehserf
6 years ago

Threaded comments where replies to a comment go into smaller and smaller boxes inside the first.

I’m looking for a graphic that might do for a banhammer, and this one would at least be easily adapted (and it’s public domain).

How many graphics do we need, btw?

http://www.clipartpal.com/_thumbs/pd/holiday/halloween/cat_broom.png

Athywren
Athywren
6 years ago

Threaded comments?

Like on reddit. You’ve got the main conversation, then you have a reply to one person’s comment which is tabbed across to show that it’s a reply, and then the reply to that is tabbed across, and so on until you have to click a link to see the rest of the replies and lose track of everything else that’s going on in the discussion.

Athywren
Athywren
6 years ago

¬_¬
Ninja’d?! My revenge will be terrible.

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

kittehs + Athywren – AHHHH. Yeah, I HATE that design. I might disable it on my blog, except for the fact that not a lot of people comment on it. 😛

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

kittehs – That should be the mod thing. Kitties flying on brooms to sweep away trolls and save the day! 😛

Ally S
6 years ago

The threaded comments on Feministe (another WordPress blog) are tolerable for me, but in general threaded comments are a bad idea.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Alice – I was thinking of adapting it to kitty flying on banhammers! 😀

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

kittehs – EVEN BETTER. 😀

katz
6 years ago

Threading isn’t so bad if you have a recent comments widget, IMO, but even so it’s easy for comments to get lost in the shuffle. And then you want to reply to two people at once and you don’t know where to put it. And then the tabbing maxes out and you can’t say anything more. And it’s hard to read because the columns get really skinny.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Alice – like this? 😉

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

kittehs – PERFECT! 😀

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

You can all stop discussing threaded comments, I also despise them.

“What sort of graphic are you looking for, Argenti? Simple silhouette or line drawing?”

Either or, or both, or lots of both, I sorta want to do the top bit as rotating animals, like here, but cuter. But I need it on a transparent or easily removable background.

As for the banhammer image, I really want to stick with Genericons, in part because of how I’m doing it, and in part because doing it as a font allows a lot more control than an image…and it’d match better. But if you can get that cat looking recognizable at 16x16px tops, I’ll see what I can do.

Really though, I want an icon for mods, not so much “I can ban you” but “questions? Need help? I’m a mod!” (Call me an optimist if you must)

I’m leaning towards the Genericons kitty like one, but after “today’s” PHP headache I’m on break (today’s? I started nearly 24 hours ago, I may want to consider sleep at some point!)

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Hey, Alice looks like me! No fair!

kittehserf
6 years ago

Hey, Alice looks like me! No fair!

Well, this is the Feminist Borg.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

:B Well, you guys DO have an artist in residence who’s drawn kitty web banners for Boobzers before…

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Something brain bleach like so I can justify having furry things on the home page by having it “need some brain bleach? Click the cute for more!” (Or similar)

I do kinda want it rotating though, equal species representation ^.^ and I couldn’t ask you to do multiple, particularly since I can’t pay you.

If you’re volunteering though, just bear it mind that fish is there as a placeholder, I do intend to put it behind the search bar.

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

kittehs – Exactly. 😛 Feminazi hivemind: we haz kitties. 😉

kittehserf
6 years ago

Borg Kitties by LBT for the win!

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Hmm. I admit I’m not a big fan of working for free. Depending how things go, maybe I’ll volunteer? We’ll see how things are going once I have stable housing and my writeathon is done. (By the way, some anon from Canada gave me a prompt about being alone; Canadanon, if you are here, I wrote you a story!)

kittehserf
6 years ago

I could prolly sponsor the artwork, LBT, if you fancy doing it at all.

kittehserf
6 years ago

It’d make a change from sponsoring my local yarn shop. 😛

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

😀 Sweet! Sure, then! I like getting paid. (I still owe you a story, Kittehs, but fear not! It’s going to be the one I do tomorrow!)

Obviously I will do borg kitties, but what other species were there going to be?

katz
6 years ago

Ferrets. Hamsters. Fishies. And isn’t there someone here who likes birds?

(Kitteh: You rock.)

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Also, random, but I’ve been getting surprise!Anons on my writeathons. I’m assuming they come from here, but I feel bad, because I don’t know where to chase them down and tell them I’ve written stories for them! I guess I just have to hope they come back and keep checking. :

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I warn you, I have full intention of drawing some ancient old Sphynx cat with laser beams.

cloudiah
6 years ago

Count me in for sponsoring artwork too!

kittehserf
6 years ago

Hey, no sweat about the story, only do it if it grabs you! 🙂

katz – awww. ::blush::

There are several people who like birds here, parrots especially. Rats, too. And dogs, of course.

Borgis …

cloudiah
6 years ago

CAN WE HAVE ALL THE ANIMALS?

kittehserf
6 years ago

I warn you, I have full intention of drawing some ancient old Sphynx cat with laser beams.

That is gonna look so like Yoda …