Today I feel an irresistible urge to post music videos. Above, an awesome interpretation of a rock classic that is sure to get you PUMPED for the weekend.
Below, enjoy the silky voice of Phil Collins.
And here’s Jim Morrison apparently doing his impersonation of the most insufferable man in the universe.
Ok, ok. Here’s that creepshaming manifesto I promised. Or portions of it, anyway. (Like a lot of things written by MRAs, the whole thing is a lot longer than it needs to be.)
The term ‘Creep’ is used every single day to describe people who have done something creepy. A ‘Creep’ is, according to a dictionary, a detestable person, but not according to society today. Today ‘Creep’ is an everyday word that is plastered all over men’s foreheads whenever they do something women don’t like, there is a thousand ways for me to be creepy as a male that I don’t even recognize until it’s too late, or until someone else decides I’m a ‘Creep’. Here is society’s definition of a ‘Creep’:
A man who shows more attention, platonic, romantic or sexual, to a person then they so desire at that time.
[blah blah blah]
I have a little anecdote here for you all. I had a friend with benefits, a girl I was sleeping with every week or two with no romantic strings attached and it was awesome. I found myself loving this woman, not romantically but as a friend I couldn’t have asked for better. Fast forward a few weeks [blah blah blah] The fact that I wasn’t aware of the boyfriend, that the message I sent wasn’t sexual at all and that I was a close personal friend of [oh just fucking shut up]
‘Creep’ is a term that gets abused all over this society; it gets pasted on a man’s forehead by women and scars them with a disfiguring social mark against their name to everyone who is around to hear them say it. Men, you are not a ‘Creep’ for showing a woman attention, you are not a ‘Creep’ for loving kids, or for showing interest in child things. You are a functioning human being. Any women who labels you a ‘Creep’ has problems, they don’t know how to deal with other peoples desires, they don’t respect men’s desires, they don’t realize that men have needs and have wants that don’t line up with their own. Any women who labels a man a ‘Creep’ without a dammed good reason cares only about her own desires, she believes only she can have flexible wants and differing needs and she can’t understand that you are just as human as they are, and that’s a little bit creepy in my honest opinion.
-J.C
Woah. J.C.? The J.C.?
Sorry, Jesus, I didn’t know it was you.
Honestly, I don’t remember you being this whiny the first time around. But whatev. Good to see you.
Naturally, the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit think JC’s Creep-i-festo is pretty creeptastic. One of them even left this rather alarming comment:
Yikes. I would go so far as to say that this comment is a bit creepy,
The “opened a conversation” bit is revealing, too. Hello, wannabe PUA!
(The folks in AgainstMensRights are making fun of the Creep-i-festo and making Jesus jokes too.)
This comment from Scalzi’s blog by katyisbutthurt says it all, I think.
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/08/09/an-incomplete-guide-to-not-creeping/#comment-348191
I see dads with kids often and all that pops into my head is “awww so cute!” I have never in my life ever considered “omg probably a pedo!” when I saw a man with a kid. But ever since MRAs mentioned that it’s apparently a thing and I see a man with a kid I remember them saying that and think “really? do they really think women think this when they see this?”
They act as if we live in a society where being a father doesn’t exist.
Also I hope everyone had a wicked halloween!!! I went to parties, parties where men and women (GASP!) all got along fine without some weird gender war thing going on.
oh there is an overly attached boyfriend too…this is actually pretty funny, they look so alike.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/lyapalater/omg-is-this-the-overly-attached-boyfriend
EQUALITY YAY!
Hiya Kittehs, I’m doing okay, working hard, going into hospital on Tuesday to have several cysts removed…
Life is both frantic and normal. I lurk here a lot, can’t keep up with the comments.
Sorry about those cysts WeeBoy, good luck on tuesday!
Glad you’re doing okay, and seconding Quackers, hope the cyst removal goes well!
On account of having kids myself, I know plenty of others, and I’m good enough friends with their parents for them to be totally cool about me supervising them single-handedly (and of course vice versa).
But that’s because there’s nothing remotely creepy about the way I talk about or interact with them – I don’t pretend they’re soulmates (they’re almost invariably under ten, and sometimes quite a bit under), I don’t treat them as anything that they’re clearly not, I don’t have inappropriate conversations with them, you name it. None of which should be especially difficult.
Hi all! Haven’t commented in a while, but this post struck me, because my creep-dar is incredibly sensitive (I’m naturally suspicious of strangers who approach me).
@Joseph- I’m so sorry that you are having a difficult time getting support and guidance. I wish all the best for you. As for the whole men on the autism spectrum who might not pick up on cues, and we ignore those guys…I have to say, I don’t see them being “ignored” in these conversations. Really, any time there is any discussion along the lines of “Men, don’t do XYZ thing(s), they can come off as creepy”, dudes will crawl out of the woodwork to say “But what if you are on the autism spectrum or are just socially awkward????”. I mean, it’s a legitimate concern, but I most often see that argument applied as a cudgel to explain why no, men can’t/shouldn’t be expected to change their behavior.
Especially because a group I think gets ignored when that’s brought up? WOMEN on the autism spectrum, who have a difficult time with cues/social situations. No one seems worried that they’ll be uncomfortable with dudes not respecting their boundaries.
@lensman- I’m going to agree with the other folks who said: not my or any other person’s job to educate you on in-bounds behavior. If a dude makes me uncomfortable, my priority is not ” I wonder if I can help him become a more complete, fulfilled human being.” I just want to be AWAY. Especially because in my experience, if I get creeped out by a decent guy, and I finally tell him “hey, when you do XYZ it creeps me out”, he’ll say, “ok, sorry.” And he (might) stop, but he will usually stick around. Because he thinks he’s solved the problem and he’s good now. But no. He did something that made me feel uncomfortable, so I want him to leave. This does not work out well.
@all- For me, creeping isn’t just about behavior that crosses lines, or repetition (though dudes that do those are definitely creeps). My low level creep-dar is usually triggered by two things: one, approaching me with an intent you are going to keep hidden, which leads to two, pursuing your goal in such a way that I cannot call you out on it. That’s the biggest thing for me. If you are pursuing/flirting with me in such a way that I can’t reject these (unnamed intentions), or you’re PRE-planning the “No, I wasn’t flirting I was being friendly” defense…in my brain, you’re “that creeper over there”.
Whoops my inability to code italics. Sorry all
for all the bleating on MRAs do about their FREE SPEECH!!1 they sure seem to want to censor women from using a word to express their discomfort around someone who is acting…well, creepy.
Yeah, any time I get a gut feeling that someone is being deceptive or manipulative that triggers my “get away from this person ASAP” instincts.
A big part of the problem here is some men’s refusal to accept the idea that maybe women as a group might be fairly good at figuring out who might potentially present a danger to them based on social cues, body language, and so on. Which ties in with the fact that autistic women are always left out of this conversation, even though given the way our social script for het interactions goes they’re actually far more disadvantaged by their inability to read social cues easily than autistic men are. Most women on the spectrum who I’ve known have had to work with a really shitty combination of not always picking up on danger cues that neurotypical women mostly would and not feeling like they can or should act on the “something’s not right here” feelings they do have because they’re aware that they don’t always read social cues well and worry that they might be overreacting (which the way women are usually socialized reinforces). IME they get targeted by creeps with far more frequency than women who’re neurotypical.
Pseudostar: I thought I could be open here without being accused of being a comtemptable person. It seems I cannot. Don’t worry, you’ve shamed me into silenced.
I just realized that there is one category of men who are unfairly creep-shamed a lot, and that’s middle-aged white men with Asian daughters in their teens or twenties. I’ve heard lots young Asian women with white fathers complain that when they do something together with their dad, whether it’s go to a restaurant or the movies or the park or whatever, people will occasionally make rude comments that suppose that their dad is a dirty old man with a much younger Asian babe for a girlfriend.
Obviously that’s not misandry, though, but racism, and it’s primarily directed at the daughter. People see a young Asian woman and thinks “SEX!” and then “therefore, the relationship she has with that dude next to her must be SEXUAL!” and then as a side-note “oh what a creepy old dude!”.
Joseph M. Ama (jomama? Really?) Pseudo Star did not call you a contemptible person. Zie expressed sympathy for you and pointed out that awkwardness or being on the spectrum are used by neurotypical men as a cover for their own creeping, as a diversionary tactic.
Read the Scalzi thread linked here.
Better yet, google Schrodinger’s Rapist and read the essay and the comments. What’s being left out/ignored in all the “what about spectrum men?” talk is that this is about the physical safety of the person (almost always a woman) being creeped on. When we say we’re made uncomfortable, it means we’re feeling unsafe. We’re feeling threatened. We don’t know if this guy who’s worrying us is just clueless or doing it deliberately; we don’t know if a rejection of any sort is going to produce an apology and departure, or abuse, heightened creeping or actual assault.
The latter happen a LOT.
Also, does it ever occur to the guys saying “But, but, autism!” that there are women on the spectrum too, and they are far more likely to be the victims of harassment and assault? That they have a much harder time getting the creep to fucking well leave them alone?
Seriously, why is the default = no so fucking hard for so many men to get into their heads? Oh, of course, because it doesn’t suit them to assume no-consent from the sex class.
Joseph: You were hardly shamed into silence. In fact, everyone who replied to you was very supportive.
Massive side-eye as to your motivations after that comment.
WeeBoy: I hope your cyst removal goes well, and you have speedy healing.
This. No one owes you an explanation as to why they’ve had the emotional response that they have. In fact, feeling entitled to such an explanation is just as kittehserf describes above — you are continuing to try to force this person to engage with you when you are clearly making them uncomfortable or even feel unsafe with you. And THAT’S NOT COOL. At that point you are continuing to try to manipulate this person and force them to do something they don’t want to do. Stop and leave. That’s it.
And this goes both ways. You also do not owe anyone an explanation as to why you have the emotional response that you have.
Am I the only one starting to get a troll, maybe sock, spidey sense from Joseph’s continued woe-is-me comments? Just the name is pretty side-eye stuff – Joseph M. Ama being short for Jo Mama, being a play on Yo, Mama. That’s … not a nym that inspires confidence on a misogyny-mocking site subject to return trolls.
Kittehs: You are not alone in this feeling.
Ironically enough, I just saw Mr 90% having a whine in that Scalzi post Shaun linked to earlier (it’s from last year). Someone almost immediately called him out as a regular troll here.
Whether or not he has anything to do with this, I’m getting more and more leery of Mr Ama.
Jomama isn’t just a play on Yo, Mama, we have an occasional troll by that name don’t we? Jomama420? I know it’ something like that because I used an analogy about potheads once to attempt to teach him why gay slurs are bad (the analogy wasn’t straight out “this are similar” but “if potheads got beat to death, would you like being called one” type analogy)
There is a reason I’ve not replied to Mr. Ama. The level of passive aggressive entitlement is offputting, and the message (women are mean to men who aren’t typical) is bothersome. The thing is, the complaint is such that to immediately go, “dude, that story is so convenient” isn’t fair.
But on balance, I don’t trust him.
kitteh, I rarely read the comments. I generally save that for when I want a troll to mock or material to write about.
Hey, who wants to know how Edmonton is doing wrt racism? This week we pulled anti muslim ads (YAY), and when the papers reported on the group who payed for them, they listed all of the other anti muslim things they did including protesting the (entirely fictional and made up by them so they’d have something to protest) mosque on ground zero (it was a community center, people). Pulling ads because they are racist, using racism to do so, it’s the Alberta way!
The ads were “calling out” fatwa, and by calling out I mean they were racist bullshit. In the same paper they reported that a man in Charleston had murdered 6 people because of a custody battle. Thing is, when it’s white dudes we don’t call it an “honour killing” but the base motivation (how dare that women not do what I say) is the same.
It is a community center, and it’s not, “on ground zero”.
BTW, has anyone looked at the spire on the new WTC? It looks like a minaret.