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CDC: MRA claims that “40% of rapists are women” are based on bad math and misuse of our data

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Feminists often complain, with considerable justification, that Men’s Rights Activists try to turn every conversation about women’s issues into a game of “what about the men?” You’re talking about female rape victims — well, what about the male rape victims?

The trouble with this strategy, from the point of view of the Men’s Rights Activists anyway, is that this little “gotcha” is much less of a “gotcha” then they’d like it to be.

In the case of rape, for example, feminists are well aware that men are raped as well: the “Don’t Be That Guy” ad campaign, which sent so many MRAs into hysterics, focused on male victims as well as female ones. The emergency room rape advocate organization that a friend of mine volunteers for  provides advocacy for victims regardless of gender.

So many MRAs have started playing another game: trying to twist the conversation around in order to cast women as the villains. Rape is a bit tough for them here, since the overwhelming majority of rapists are male. So MRAs talk about the alleged epidemic of female false accusers instead. Or they change the topic entirely and make dead baby jokes (see my post yesterday).

Recently, MRAs have tried a new strategy, seizing on data from The National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, a massive study conducted in 2010 under the aegis of the Centers for Disease Control, to claim that “40% of rapists are women.”

This is a claim repeated by numerous MRAs on numerous websites; see, for example, this post by A Voice for Men’s Typhonblue on the blog GendErratic. Here’s the same claim made into an “infographic” for the Men’s Rights subreddit.

Trouble is, this claim is flat-out false, based on an incorrect understanding of the NISVS data. But you don’t have to take my word for it: the NISVS researchers themselves say the MRA “interpretation” of their data is based on bad math. It’s not just a question of different definitions of rape: the MRA claims are untenable even if you include men who were “made to penetrate” women as victims of rape (as the MRAs do)  rather than as victims of “sexual violence other than rape” (as the NISVS does).

I wrote to the NISVS for clarification of this matter recently, and got back a detailed analysis, straight from the horse’s mouth, of where the MRA arguments went wrong. This is long, and a bit technical, but it’s also pretty definitive, so it’s worth quoting in detail. (I’ve bolded some of the text below for emphasis, and broken some of the larger walls of text into shorter paragraphs.)

It appears that the math used to derive an estimated percentage of female rapists … is flawed.  First, we will summarize the assertion and what we perceive to be the basis for the assertion.

According to the web links, the “40% of rapists were women” was derived from these two steps:

1)      Combining the estimated number of female rape victims with the estimated number of being-made-to-penetrate male victims in the 12 months prior to the survey to conclude that about 50% of the rape or being-made-to-penetrate victims were males;

2)      Multiplying the estimated percentage (79%) of male being-made-to-penetrate victims who reported having had female perpetrators in these victims’ lifetime with the 50% obtained in step 1 to claim that 40% of perpetrators of rape or being-made-to-penetrate were women.

None of these calculations should be used nor can these conclusions be correctly drawn from these calculations.

First the researchers clarify the issue of definition:

To explain, in NISVS we define rape as “any completed or attempted unwanted vaginal (for women), oral, or anal penetration through the use of physical force (such as being pinned or held down, or by the use of violence) or threats to physically harm and includes times when the victim was drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent.”

We defined sexual violence other than rape to include being made to penetrate someone else, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and non-contact unwanted sexual experiences. Made to penetrate is defined as including “times when the victim was made to, or there was an attempt to make them, sexually penetrate someone without the victim’s consent because the victim was physically forced (such as being pinned or held down, or by the use of violence) or threatened with physical harm, or when the victim was drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent.”

The difference between “rape” and “being made to penetrate” is that in the definition of rape the victim is penetrated; “made to penetrate” by definition refers to cases where the victim penetrated someone else.

While there are multiple definitions of rape and sexual violence used in the field, CDC, with the help of experts in the field, has developed these specific definitions of rape and other forms of sexual violence (such as made to penetrate, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and non-contact unwanted sexual experiences). We use these definitions to help guide our analytical decisions.

Now the researchers get into the details of the math:

Regarding the specific assertion in question, several aspects of mistreatments of the data and the published estimates occurred in the above derivation:

A.      While the percentage of female rape victims and the percentage of male being-made-to-penetrate victims were inferred from the past 12-month estimates by combining two forms of violence, the percentage of perpetrator by sex was taken from reported estimates for males for lifetime (a misuse of the percentage of male victims who reported only female perpetrators in their lifetime being made to penetrate victimization).  This mismatch of timeframes is incorrect because the past 12-month victimization cannot be stretched to equate with lifetime victimization.  In fact, Table 2.1 and 2.2 of the NISVS 2010 Summary Report clearly report that lifetime rape victimization of females (estimated at 21,840,000) is about 4 times the number of lifetime being made-to-penetrate of males (estimated at 5,451,000).

B.      An arithmetic confusion appears when multiplying the two percentages together to conclude that the product is a percentage of all the “rapists”, an undefined perpetrator population.  Multiplying the percentage of male victims (as derived in step 1) above) to the percentage of male victims who had female perpetrators cannot give a percentage of perpetrators mathematically because to get a percentage of female rape perpetrators, one must have the total rape perpetrators (the denominator), and the number of female perpetrators of this specific violence (the numerator).  Here, neither the numerator nor the denominator was available.

C.      Data collected and analyzed for the NISVS 2010 have a “one-to-multiple” structure (where the “one” refers to one victim and the “multiple” refers to multiple perpetrators).  While not collected, it is conceivable that any perpetrator could have multiple victims.  These multiplicities hinder any attempt to get a percentage of perpetrators such as the one described in steps 1) and 2), and nullify the reverse calculation for obtaining a percent of perpetrators.

For example, consider an example in which a girl has eight red apples while a boy has two green apples.  Here, 50% of the children are boys and another 50% are girls.  It is not valid to multiply 50% (boy) with 100% (boy’s green apples) to conclude that “50% of all the apples combined are green”.  It is clear that only 20% of all the apples are green (two out of 10 apples) when one combines the red and green apples together.  Part of the mistake in the deriving of the “50%” stems from a negligence to take into account the inherent multiplicity: a child can have multiple apples (just as a victim can have multiple perpetrators).

D.      As the study population is U.S. adults in non-institutional settings, the sample was designed to be representative of the study population, not the perpetrator population (therefore no sampling or weighting is done for the undefined universe of perpetrators).  Hence, while the data can be analyzed to make statistical inferences about the victimization of U.S. adults residing in non-institutional settings, the NISVS data are incapable of lending support to any national estimates of the perpetrator population, let alone estimates of perpetrators of a specific form of violence (say, rape or being-made-to-penetrate).

E.      Combining the estimated past 12-month female rape victims with the estimated past 12-month being-made-to-penetrate male victims cannot give an accurate number of all victims who were either raped or being-made-to-penetrate, even if this combination is consistent with CDC’s definition.

Besides a disagreement with the definitions of the various forms of violence given in the NISVS 2010 Summary Report, this approach of combining the 12-month estimated number of female rape victims with the 12-month estimated number of male victims misses victims in the cells where reliable estimates were not reported due to small cell counts failing to meet statistical reliability criteria.  For any combined form of violence, the correct analytical approach for obtaining a national estimate is to start at the raw data level of analysis, if such a creation of a combined construct is established.

So you’re going to need to go back to the drawing board, MRAs.

What is especially distressing here is that the NISVS data could have been the starting point for a serious discussion of male victims of sexual assault by women, which is a real and often overlooked issue. Unfortunately, MRAs have once again poisoned the well by misusing data in an attempt to exaggerate the purported villainy of women and score cheap rhetorical points.

NOTE: A regular in the AgainstMensRights subreddit approached the NISVS researchers with this same question some months back. Unfortunately, the statement they got back from the NISVS contained an incorrect number. The statement I’m quoting here corrects this number and adds more context.

I can provide contact info for the NISVS representative who got back to me on this to any serious (non-troll) person who requests it.

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Marie
11 years ago

@not that guy

My response here is that David Futrelle’s argument that the Don’t Be That Guy campaign focused on men as victims is weak if non-existent or even misrepresenting the Don’t Be That Guy campaign.

Um, where did he say he focused on men as victims? Cuz, I did not see it. He pointed out the campaign wasn’t ignoring victims of male on male rape, but saying it’s not ignoring men as victims isn’t the same as saying it’s focusing on them.

2) Don’t be that girl is intended to argue about a real problem that men’s rights edmonton believe men face from women, a problem that is largely ignored in society, and one they believe is on par with men raping women, and that is the problem of false accusations.

False rape accusations are nowhere near as common as rape. So go find a different argument, this one will get you nowhere.

The logical conclusion of 1 – 4 above suggest that to argue that DBTGirl needed to discuss female on male rapes is to misunderstand completely the DBTGirl campaign.

Yeah, god forbid the mras focus on an actual problem (men not being taken seriously when they are raped by women) and instead focus on a non-existent problem used to silence female rape victims later (false accusations.) They don’t actually want to help men. They just want to hurt women.

kittehserf
11 years ago

Your problem there is that “false accusations” is a loat of bullshit anyway. The MRM conflates reported rapes where a rape happened but the wrong person was identified; or ones where a rape happened but the police didn’t consider there was enough evidence to pursue it; or ones where they didn’t BOTHER to pursue it.

They’re not “false accusations” at all in the sense of a woman accusing a man of rape when no rape happened, and that is what the MRM is accusing women of doing. They conflate being raped with having a one-night-stand and regretting it the next day. Because it’s soooo much a thing that women report rape at the drop of a hat, and are not slut-shamed, or disbelieved, or browbeaten into withdrawing the accusation by police. No, that just never happens.

Go learn what the fuck the MRM is really about: rape apologia. Go get a clue. If you already know this stuff and are just another disingenuous MRA, just fuck off.

not that guy
not that guy
11 years ago

In the case of rape, for example, feminists are well aware that men are raped as well: the “Don’t Be That Guy” ad campaign, which sent so many MRAs into hysterics, focused on male victims as well as female ones.

To repeat:

A) 1 poster of 7 is not focus on male victims as well as

B) No posters of female on male rape demonstrates feminists are not aware that men are raped by non-consensual envelopment.

marinerachel
marinerachel
11 years ago

The DBTGuy campaign wasn’t intended to confront the general issue of rape. That’s an issue that’s too big to tackle with a few fucking posters. It was intended to confront the issue of male entitlement to sex with whomever hence the inclusion of male victims of rape by men. The reason: most rapes we know about ARE COMMITTED BY MEN. That makes it a reasonable fucking place to start.

THAT’S NOT THE SAME THING AS SAYING WOMEN DON’T/CAN’T COMMIT RAPE. It just means the issue of rape committed by women isn’t being confronted by this campaign. It sure as fuck isn’t a reasonable response to equate child abandonment and false rape accusation exclusively against men by women with rape committed by men regarding the numbers of people it harms and the extent of harm is causes to individual victims on average. They’re not comparable matters. Furthermore, DBTGirl isn’t a campaign for anything. It’s about deflecting issues and stirring up hate via incomparable matters of social inequality.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“The logical conclusion of 1 – 4 above suggest that to argue that DBTGirl needed to discuss female on male rapes is to misunderstand completely the DBTGirl campaign.”

*bangs head on wall*

Yes, I got that, thank you very much. My entire point, if you could read, which I really doubt, was that it could’ve been about female on male rape. Which would be anagolous to the don’t be that guy posters.

——

I figured out how to run WP locally and am taking a break from poking themes. I started a thread over on the forum for this little project if any interested parties want to pop over there.

It seems I don’t have my previous WP templates, but hurrah! I do things old skool, my notes, and much of the code formatting, was done on paper, in one of my sketchpads, which I save religiously. So I should have most of what I’m looking for, once I move stuff and get at the older sketchpads.

marinerachel
marinerachel
11 years ago

Oh, fuck off, dude. The fact every fucking campaign doesn’t focus on your pet issue which harms far less people than the one being tackled =/= ignorance. It means this campaign didn’t target female rapists. Broad approaches aren’t as effective as narrow ones. This was about a relatively narrow approach to tackle an aspect of the issue of rape that harms the largest number of people that we know of and that’s rape perpetrated by men against whomever.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“B) No posters of female on male rape demonstrates feminists are not aware that men are raped by non-consensual envelopment.”

No, you fucking twit, it demonstrates that a campaign called don’t be that GUY focused on GUYS!

——

Is this a sock of the one who was as dense as a black hole? Or are there really two people this fucking stupid who feel the need to comment here?

Ally S
11 years ago

The MRE DBTGirl argument has two purposes. The first I mentioned in 2) above, but the other purpose is to demonstrate the logical fallacies in both DBTGuy and DBTGirl by giving people examples of each and trusting them to realize that society largely condemns rape and society largely condemns the making of false accusations of rape and that it is unfair and illogical to condemn all men as rapists or to condemn all women as false rape accusers.

There is no fallacy because DBTGuy doesn’t assume that all men are rapists. It serves to stigmatized both male-on-female rape and attitudes that condone/trivialize/support male-on-female rape.

You have no argument.

marinerachel
marinerachel
11 years ago

And, fer fuck sake, if it is the case that I don’t understand rape perpetrated by women, which I really don’t because it’s relatively infrequent to the best of anyone’s verifiable knowledge and I’ve never been victim or perp to it, why won’t these jackass “activists” speak the fuck up about an issue that’s supposedly so close to their hearts and harming them profoundly in such huge numbers? If they really care that much about victims of sexual violence perpetrated by women, why aren’t they advocating for them? Why are they focusing on deflection and hatred instead of contributing to awareness?

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

In random things that are more interesting: my baby fishies are over a week old! And one of pecunium’s African violets has tiny baby leaves and he is thus definitely getting at least one new plant 🙂

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

Actually, our preferred solution would not be for men to report more, but for women to stop making a police case out of every little inconvenience (like harassment complaints because of a dinner invitation).

Ding ding ding.
Ten points for, “we don’t actually care about raped men,” another ten for, “we just want raped women to shut the fuck up about it,” and an additional five for, “sexual harassment is just a man asking a woman on a date and her whining about it.”
For twenty five points, you earn a rousing “FUCK YOU!” from our audience.
On to round two!

But we think rather the re-definition of rape is wrong.

Rape should refer to true forcible rape, and not to all types of consensual activities turned sour. Or to a wife that, 10 year after the fact, accuses the husband of one instance of rape.

Your original score of twenty five stands. Add ten for, “redefining rape,” yet another ten for, “legitimate rape,” and twenty more for, “rape is just consensual sex that you regretted after the fact.”
Your new total stands at sixty five, for which you earn my eternal disdain, and this cuddly toy made of razorblades!
Time for the bonus round!

We should also raise awareness that 40 to 60 percent of rape accusations are estimated to be false.

Injury time lives up to its name, as our hero tears reality a new one – “false rape accusations are more common than rape.” Fifteen points, which, because it’s the bonus round, is tripled.
One hundred and ten points! An astonishing total. You’ve earned yourself a herd of sentient legos to follow you around wherever you go. Never again can you walk barefoot, for you will certainly step on them. Forever.

I agree, Brooked. Human-Stupidity.com is a brilliant name for that guy.

—–

But as you can see by their posters, the “Don’t Be That Guy” campaign did not focus on male victims at all. One poster of seven, and none suggesting women can rape men is not any sort of indication of focus.

What do you think the words “focus” and “at all” mean?
To me, to focus on something means you pay attention to it… and at all means to some degree.
1 out of 7 is 14.29%
Surely ~14% of the attention counts as some degree of attention? I will grant you that there are arguments to be made that more attention should have been paid to male victims, but to deny that any was paid to them at all is a demonstrably false statement.

Leaving out female – female rapes, leaving out female – male rapes is a major reason why the postering campaign is (mis?)understood to be a male blaming campaign more than it is a rape reduction campaign.

Recently, there has been an advertising campaign running in England which argues that a great deal of cigarette smoke is invisible. So attempting to blow your smoke out of a window to keep your children safe from second hand smoke isn’t a good tactic.
If the intention behind the campaign is to reduce smoking, why is it so clearly a smoking parent blaming campaign!?
(Hint: Because advertising campaigns tend to focus on one issue at a time, rather than getting bogged down in the specifics of related but broad topics and diluting the message in the process. These are not simple issues that are easily fixed.)

Should there be a campaign against female rapists? Yes. Should every single campaign target every single issue at once? Only if you want them to fail.

Marie
11 years ago

@Argenti Aertheri

Yay for your baby fishies! 😀

marinerachel
marinerachel
11 years ago

You got away with it for that long! That means you win.

Even if it were the case that all regrettable sex constituted rape, rape claims are rarely taken seriously anyways and are just about never prosecuted much less result in convictions so lives wouldn’t be ruined even if there were grounds for rape charges based excusively on “consentual activities gone sour”.

And no, after giving consent, withdrawing it is plenty information to allow the other party/ies to avoid being rapists. They’ve been informed. They can stop. They are at no disadvantage. It may be disappointing but, fer fuck sake, if you’ve been informed that what you’re doing which someone previously consented to is now harming them, stopping isn’t a big deal. It’s a bummer at worst. Unless you don’t stop, you are at no risk of accidentally raping someone.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

@augzilliary
They were from the person Brooked quoted.

Ally S
11 years ago

“Rape should refer to true forcible rape, and not to all types of consensual activities turned sour. Or to a wife that, 10 year after the fact, accuses the husband of one instance of rape.”

Ah, so this person wants to make it harder if not impossible for a victim who was victimized a long time ago to come forward and report hir victimization to the authorities. What a piece of shit.

marinerachel
marinerachel
11 years ago

I don’t know what world these people live in where someone decides partway through that what they consented to is no longer OK for them but they don’t bother informing the other participant/s and then surprise rape charges are laid down. No one expects you to be a fucking mind-reader. It would be amazing if you practiced a modicum of human decency and tried to read body language and, if someone looks distressed, stop what you’re doing, even if they consented to it previously but no one is going to label what you did rape if the person to whom harm was done consented and then failed to inform you when things got dark for them. Communication is important. Everyone recognises that.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

not that guy: STOP BEING THAT GUY.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Auggz: Brooked was quoting someone and the blockquote monster was quite hungry at that moment.

The person she’s quoting is called humanstupidity, a very fitting name.

marinerachel
marinerachel
11 years ago

Humanstupidity? Spectacular own-goal with that moniker.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

And no, after giving consent, withdrawing it is plenty information to allow the other party/ies to avoid being rapists. They’ve been informed. They can stop. They are at no disadvantage. It may be disappointing but, fer fuck sake, if you’ve been informed that what you’re doing which someone previously consented to is now harming them, stopping isn’t a big deal. It’s a bummer at worst. Unless you don’t stop, you are at no risk of accidentally raping someone.

You know, I really don’t understand why this is such a big issue with MRAs.
Whenever my brother and I get together on an evening, we play Carcassonne or Zombies!!! or Scrabble and we usually play for most of the evening. But there have been times when one or both of us have been too tired to continue and so end the game early. This is normal behaviour. If one of us were to continue the game, and force the other to do the same, it would be seen as some bizarre hostage situation. But if you’re having sex with someone, and they say stop, it’s somehow strange to expect you to stop? Why is it that the refusal to stop or to allow the other to stop in the casual activity would be unthinkable, but in one of the most intimate activities available, people think it’s fine?

SittieKitty
11 years ago

A poster of a male being victimized by another male is almost certainly is intended to mean penetration of the victim and not meant to mean forced envelopment of the victim.

Um… actually, the first thing I think of when I saw that poster was forced oral sex. Which may be because that’s the most common thing I’ve heard of, someone forcing oral sex on them by just going down on them without consent… So, forced to penetrate, totally valid in that context…

cloudiah
11 years ago

@Argenti, Thanks for the explanation; which confirmed that I did pretty much understand the CDC explanation correctly! Also, congrats on the fishies and plants.

Everyone else, where did the Humanstupidity quotes come from originally? I is cornfused.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

cloudiah: I don’t remember exactly, I think it’s in Brooked’s post.

Auggz: well, maybe he thought naming himself “iamahorriblepersonwhocondonesrape” was over the line, I don’t know.

marinerachel
marinerachel
11 years ago

Oh man, I love Carcassonne.

I get the impression MRAs believe women plan to engage in sex and revoke consent to tease them and trick them into accidentally committing rape. If I believed that were actually the case, yeah, wow, awful. But, as a woman whose said partway through “Can’t do this now” during sex and soccer games (I sometimes underestimate the effect old injuries will have) and when going out to the pub with friends and when staying up late to watch a movie, I really doubt that’s the case. Unless you believe women are intentionally trying to harm you every time consent is revoked, really, it seems like a very normal thing to happen to anyone. So this reaction is just another product of their dislike of women.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

@Cloudiah
They’re from Typhon Blue’s article on gendereratic which was linked in the original text.
…bah, tried to donotlinkify with the comment number included. Faaaail.
Just search for “Human-Stupidity.com” on the page.