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CDC: MRA claims that “40% of rapists are women” are based on bad math and misuse of our data

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Feminists often complain, with considerable justification, that Men’s Rights Activists try to turn every conversation about women’s issues into a game of “what about the men?” You’re talking about female rape victims — well, what about the male rape victims?

The trouble with this strategy, from the point of view of the Men’s Rights Activists anyway, is that this little “gotcha” is much less of a “gotcha” then they’d like it to be.

In the case of rape, for example, feminists are well aware that men are raped as well: the “Don’t Be That Guy” ad campaign, which sent so many MRAs into hysterics, focused on male victims as well as female ones. The emergency room rape advocate organization that a friend of mine volunteers for  provides advocacy for victims regardless of gender.

So many MRAs have started playing another game: trying to twist the conversation around in order to cast women as the villains. Rape is a bit tough for them here, since the overwhelming majority of rapists are male. So MRAs talk about the alleged epidemic of female false accusers instead. Or they change the topic entirely and make dead baby jokes (see my post yesterday).

Recently, MRAs have tried a new strategy, seizing on data from The National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, a massive study conducted in 2010 under the aegis of the Centers for Disease Control, to claim that “40% of rapists are women.”

This is a claim repeated by numerous MRAs on numerous websites; see, for example, this post by A Voice for Men’s Typhonblue on the blog GendErratic. Here’s the same claim made into an “infographic” for the Men’s Rights subreddit.

Trouble is, this claim is flat-out false, based on an incorrect understanding of the NISVS data. But you don’t have to take my word for it: the NISVS researchers themselves say the MRA “interpretation” of their data is based on bad math. It’s not just a question of different definitions of rape: the MRA claims are untenable even if you include men who were “made to penetrate” women as victims of rape (as the MRAs do)  rather than as victims of “sexual violence other than rape” (as the NISVS does).

I wrote to the NISVS for clarification of this matter recently, and got back a detailed analysis, straight from the horse’s mouth, of where the MRA arguments went wrong. This is long, and a bit technical, but it’s also pretty definitive, so it’s worth quoting in detail. (I’ve bolded some of the text below for emphasis, and broken some of the larger walls of text into shorter paragraphs.)

It appears that the math used to derive an estimated percentage of female rapists … is flawed.  First, we will summarize the assertion and what we perceive to be the basis for the assertion.

According to the web links, the “40% of rapists were women” was derived from these two steps:

1)      Combining the estimated number of female rape victims with the estimated number of being-made-to-penetrate male victims in the 12 months prior to the survey to conclude that about 50% of the rape or being-made-to-penetrate victims were males;

2)      Multiplying the estimated percentage (79%) of male being-made-to-penetrate victims who reported having had female perpetrators in these victims’ lifetime with the 50% obtained in step 1 to claim that 40% of perpetrators of rape or being-made-to-penetrate were women.

None of these calculations should be used nor can these conclusions be correctly drawn from these calculations.

First the researchers clarify the issue of definition:

To explain, in NISVS we define rape as “any completed or attempted unwanted vaginal (for women), oral, or anal penetration through the use of physical force (such as being pinned or held down, or by the use of violence) or threats to physically harm and includes times when the victim was drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent.”

We defined sexual violence other than rape to include being made to penetrate someone else, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and non-contact unwanted sexual experiences. Made to penetrate is defined as including “times when the victim was made to, or there was an attempt to make them, sexually penetrate someone without the victim’s consent because the victim was physically forced (such as being pinned or held down, or by the use of violence) or threatened with physical harm, or when the victim was drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent.”

The difference between “rape” and “being made to penetrate” is that in the definition of rape the victim is penetrated; “made to penetrate” by definition refers to cases where the victim penetrated someone else.

While there are multiple definitions of rape and sexual violence used in the field, CDC, with the help of experts in the field, has developed these specific definitions of rape and other forms of sexual violence (such as made to penetrate, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and non-contact unwanted sexual experiences). We use these definitions to help guide our analytical decisions.

Now the researchers get into the details of the math:

Regarding the specific assertion in question, several aspects of mistreatments of the data and the published estimates occurred in the above derivation:

A.      While the percentage of female rape victims and the percentage of male being-made-to-penetrate victims were inferred from the past 12-month estimates by combining two forms of violence, the percentage of perpetrator by sex was taken from reported estimates for males for lifetime (a misuse of the percentage of male victims who reported only female perpetrators in their lifetime being made to penetrate victimization).  This mismatch of timeframes is incorrect because the past 12-month victimization cannot be stretched to equate with lifetime victimization.  In fact, Table 2.1 and 2.2 of the NISVS 2010 Summary Report clearly report that lifetime rape victimization of females (estimated at 21,840,000) is about 4 times the number of lifetime being made-to-penetrate of males (estimated at 5,451,000).

B.      An arithmetic confusion appears when multiplying the two percentages together to conclude that the product is a percentage of all the “rapists”, an undefined perpetrator population.  Multiplying the percentage of male victims (as derived in step 1) above) to the percentage of male victims who had female perpetrators cannot give a percentage of perpetrators mathematically because to get a percentage of female rape perpetrators, one must have the total rape perpetrators (the denominator), and the number of female perpetrators of this specific violence (the numerator).  Here, neither the numerator nor the denominator was available.

C.      Data collected and analyzed for the NISVS 2010 have a “one-to-multiple” structure (where the “one” refers to one victim and the “multiple” refers to multiple perpetrators).  While not collected, it is conceivable that any perpetrator could have multiple victims.  These multiplicities hinder any attempt to get a percentage of perpetrators such as the one described in steps 1) and 2), and nullify the reverse calculation for obtaining a percent of perpetrators.

For example, consider an example in which a girl has eight red apples while a boy has two green apples.  Here, 50% of the children are boys and another 50% are girls.  It is not valid to multiply 50% (boy) with 100% (boy’s green apples) to conclude that “50% of all the apples combined are green”.  It is clear that only 20% of all the apples are green (two out of 10 apples) when one combines the red and green apples together.  Part of the mistake in the deriving of the “50%” stems from a negligence to take into account the inherent multiplicity: a child can have multiple apples (just as a victim can have multiple perpetrators).

D.      As the study population is U.S. adults in non-institutional settings, the sample was designed to be representative of the study population, not the perpetrator population (therefore no sampling or weighting is done for the undefined universe of perpetrators).  Hence, while the data can be analyzed to make statistical inferences about the victimization of U.S. adults residing in non-institutional settings, the NISVS data are incapable of lending support to any national estimates of the perpetrator population, let alone estimates of perpetrators of a specific form of violence (say, rape or being-made-to-penetrate).

E.      Combining the estimated past 12-month female rape victims with the estimated past 12-month being-made-to-penetrate male victims cannot give an accurate number of all victims who were either raped or being-made-to-penetrate, even if this combination is consistent with CDC’s definition.

Besides a disagreement with the definitions of the various forms of violence given in the NISVS 2010 Summary Report, this approach of combining the 12-month estimated number of female rape victims with the 12-month estimated number of male victims misses victims in the cells where reliable estimates were not reported due to small cell counts failing to meet statistical reliability criteria.  For any combined form of violence, the correct analytical approach for obtaining a national estimate is to start at the raw data level of analysis, if such a creation of a combined construct is established.

So you’re going to need to go back to the drawing board, MRAs.

What is especially distressing here is that the NISVS data could have been the starting point for a serious discussion of male victims of sexual assault by women, which is a real and often overlooked issue. Unfortunately, MRAs have once again poisoned the well by misusing data in an attempt to exaggerate the purported villainy of women and score cheap rhetorical points.

NOTE: A regular in the AgainstMensRights subreddit approached the NISVS researchers with this same question some months back. Unfortunately, the statement they got back from the NISVS contained an incorrect number. The statement I’m quoting here corrects this number and adds more context.

I can provide contact info for the NISVS representative who got back to me on this to any serious (non-troll) person who requests it.

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Fibinachi
Fibinachi
11 years ago

Hm. I suppose you’re right, Blackbox. I guess I just assumed the subtext was more absurdity and garishness (la munchkin) than self-aware half-ironic “Oh, but I know I’m being a terribly regressive, rather classist fop, isn’t it funny?“. Based on the few reviews I read / saw.

… Mayhaps I have been reading too much Jane Austen lately.

@Howard Bannister, lit a match briefly. That’ll do it. Light a match while holding a fork?

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
11 years ago

… also apologies accepted for me being wrong? I will assume that’s a figure of speech I am unfamiliar with, and that your sorries were not, in fact, statements of apology in relation to your having different opinions than me – which remains a crime I am happy carries no penalty, because I’m kind of a fool most times q:

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

Your link to SAVE shows 7 posters. 6 show men about to rape a woman. 1 shows a man about to rape a man. None show a woman about to rape a man. None show a woman about to rape a woman.

Yep, that’s because the majority of rapes are committed by men and so the campaign was aimed at men, That’s why the campaign was called “Don’t be that guy”.

And, strangely, what is it that the MRA take aim at when they do their parody “Don’t be that girl” campaign? Is it posters telling women not to rape? Spoiler: No. *signs*

Falconer
Falconer
11 years ago

@Fibinachi: I guess the “I’m sorry” in my “I’m sorry, I’m not convinced” was me being polite, or regretting having to disagree with you.

I’m not sure the Penny-Arcade guys liked it. They did a strip about it which let them make jokes about how their one guy is SRS BSNS and their other guy is TOTES A LADY and that’s really all they need.

nilvoid
nilvoid
11 years ago

They don’t look for support for men because if they found it their ideology would be contradicted. They want to believe that there’s no support for men. This is doubly shitty, because when the time comes to actually help out a man by suggesting services, MRAs are absolutely useless.

not that guy
not that guy
11 years ago

@titianblue

Your link to SAVE shows 7 posters. 6 show men about to rape a woman. 1 shows a man about to rape a man. None show a woman about to rape a man. None show a woman about to rape a woman.

Yep, that’s because the majority of rapes are committed by men and so the campaign was aimed at men, That’s why the campaign was called “Don’t be that guy”.

And, strangely, what is it that the MRA take aim at when they do their parody “Don’t be that girl” campaign? Is it posters telling women not to rape? Spoiler: No. *signs*

The point is that David Futrelle writes:

In the case of rape, for example, feminists are well aware that men are raped as well: the “Don’t Be That Guy” ad campaign, which sent so many MRAs into hysterics, focused on male victims as well as female ones.

But as you can see by their posters, the “Don’t Be That Guy” campaign did not focus on male victims at all. One poster of seven, and none suggesting women can rape men is not any sort of indication of focus.

David really should modify that paragraph for clarity.

(Let’s see if I have blockquote fail).

katz
11 years ago

Not that guy: If you want to control what’s written, maybe you should *drumroll* get your own blog!

katz
11 years ago

To state the obvious, David said the posters focused on male victims as well as female ones, and there’s a poster about male victims, so that’s a correct statement. He didn’t say that they focused on female perpetrators as well as male, so that’s beside the point.

not that guy
not that guy
11 years ago

A poster of a male being victimized by another male is almost certainly is intended to mean penetration of the victim and not meant to mean forced envelopment of the victim.

If there is no poster suggesting women can rape men, it is difficult to claim as David does that feminists understand male rape in the same manner as mras are saying, or even as many posters in this thread are saying and that the campaign is aware that men can be victims of rape outside of forced penetration of a male.

Leaving out female – female rapes, leaving out female – male rapes is a major reason why the postering campaign is (mis?)understood to be a male blaming campaign more than it is a rape reduction campaign.

leftwingfox
11 years ago

The MRA counter-campaign was against FALSE RAPE ACCUSATIONS not WOMEN RAPISTS. If you want to claim that the campaign has a blind spot against female rapists, you can’t pretend that the MRAs were any more sensitive to it.

daintydougal
daintydougal
11 years ago

I don’t believe that ‘don’t be that guy’ would even have considered forced penetration to be rape had David not spelled it out. It’s painfully obvious the grievance is that women aren’t being shown as perpetrators, ad has nothing do to with victims male or female. Which, if I’m not mistaken is what this entire post is about.

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

@notthatguy I call bullshit. I’d explain why but you know full well that you’re bullshitting so I can’t be bothered.

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

Oooh, nuja’d. Twice. *slinks away in embarrassment*

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

Or even “ninja’d”. *ouble the embarrassment* 😉

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

ouble the embarrassment? XD

Anyways…

“If there is no poster suggesting women can rape men, it is difficult to claim as David does that feminists understand male rape in the same manner as mras are saying, or even as many posters in this thread are saying and that the campaign is aware that men can be victims of rape outside of forced penetration of a male.”

Uh, feminists saying we understand that raoe by envelopment is tape, and having a discussion on the CDC defining it otherwise, means we, the very people saying this, cannot claim that we understand this?

You know, I don’t usually pull this one, but can you read?

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Oh and it’s “Don’t be that guy” so no fucking shit Sherlock all the rapists are male. And we’ve all said, oh so many times, that the MRM “Don’t be that girl” poster campaign could’ve focused on *drumroll* female rapists!

Instead they went the route of making false accusations comparing to male on female rape, which is ludicrous about three times over.

dlouwe
dlouwe
11 years ago

If there is no poster suggesting women can rape men, it is difficult to claim as David does that feminists understand male rape in the same manner as mras are saying, or even as many posters in this thread are saying and that the campaign is aware that men can be victims of rape outside of forced penetration of a male.

Who are these monolithic “feminists” and “the campaign” that you say aren’t aware of this? And how does a single poster campaign indicate what they don’t understand? Do you think that a “Buckle Up!” campaign isn’t aware of pedestrian fatalities?

Marie
11 years ago

@LBT

Also, guys, we’re going to be moving to Ohio in the spring! The magical land of not spending two thirds of my monthly income on rent alone! HUZZAH!

Now I just need to find some way to keep us housed till March.

Hope things go well for you. Good luck :3

@not that guy

But as you can see by their posters, the “Don’t Be That Guy” campaign did not focus on male victims at all. One poster of seven, and none suggesting women can rape men is not any sort of indication of focus.

Um…….It did have some for male victims. It had one for male on male rape. What you don’t seem to like is that it didn’t have one for female rapists. Which, I mean, it could have, but I’m not really seeing your big beef with it?

A poster of a male being victimized by another male is almost certainly is intended to mean penetration of the victim and not meant to mean forced envelopment of the victim.

Um, I still fail to see your point…

Leaving out female – female rapes, leaving out female – male rapes is a major reason why the postering campaign is (mis?)understood to be a male blaming campaign more than it is a rape reduction campaign.

And if the mras actually had a campaign focusing on female rapists, this would be a semi-valid point*

*rape is mostly perpetuated by men, but there’s nothing wrong with raising awareness for men and women who have been raped by women.

kittehserf
11 years ago

daintydougal – “not that guy” trolling here is whining about “why aren’t there any female rapists shown” but the whole thing the MRAs were outraged about was the suggestion that men rape women at all (or that what they do should be called rape and be illegal). The “don’t be that girl” was about their false-accusations hobbyhorse, saying that rape accusations are all just women putting teh poor menz in prison after regretting sex. Our current troll has jumped on the issue of rape by women in this post, which had nothing to do with the MRM posters anyway.

Point is he’s still fucked it up. Male on female rape is the vast majority even when one includes rape by being forced to penetrate. False accusations are almost nonexistent.

nilvoid
nilvoid
11 years ago

I think he actually is that guy. That dense MRA guy, to be more specific.

katz
11 years ago

From “nothing about male victims” to “nothing about female perpetrators” to “nothing about envelopment”: Those goalposts are on the run!

kittehserf
11 years ago

MRM Vitamins, to keep those goalposts healthy and active!

kittehserf
11 years ago

I’m side-eyeing someone who calls himself “not that guy” and comes in complaining about an anti-rape campaign.

kittehserf
11 years ago

Let me guess: “probably exactly that guy” really wants a poster campaign which mentions, oh, women as rapists of men, women as rapists of women, and women falsely accusing men. Naturally this would leave out any mention of men raping women, or men raping men. That should be a nice, balanced anti-rape campaign, totally reflective of reality, and not infringing on men’s rights to other people’s bodies at all.

not that guy
not that guy
11 years ago

@leftwingfox

The MRA counter-campaign was against FALSE RAPE ACCUSATIONS not WOMEN RAPISTS. If you want to claim that the campaign has a blind spot against female rapists, you can’t pretend that the MRAs were any more sensitive to it.

Okay so first understand, my responses here have not been arguing the MRA campaign was any more or less correct. My response here is that David Futrelle’s argument that the Don’t Be That Guy campaign focused on men as victims is weak if non-existent or even misrepresenting the Don’t Be That Guy campaign.

However, since you ask about the Don’t Be That Girl campaign, my understanding from the mensrightsedmonton.com (MRE) website is that:

1) Don’t be that girl is not intended to argue that women raping men is the same problem as men raping women

2) Don’t be that girl is intended to argue about a real problem that men’s rights edmonton believe men face from women, a problem that is largely ignored in society, and one they believe is on par with men raping women, and that is the problem of false accusations.

3) To repeat: Don’t be that girl never was intended to be an anti-rape campaign. It’s intended to create awareness of a problem MRE thinks is very important too, so in short, no one, not me, not MRE is complaining that DBTGuy has a blind spot against female rapists. My criticism of David Futrelle is that his argument that the DBTGuy campaign is aware of male victims is weak, lame, or disingenuous. Those are different critiques.

4) The MRE DBTGirl argument has two purposes. The first I mentioned in 2) above, but the other purpose is to demonstrate the logical fallacies in both DBTGuy and DBTGirl by giving people examples of each and trusting them to realize that society largely condemns rape and society largely condemns the making of false accusations of rape and that it is unfair and illogical to condemn all men as rapists or to condemn all women as false rape accusers.

The logical conclusion of 1 – 4 above suggest that to argue that DBTGirl needed to discuss female on male rapes is to misunderstand completely the DBTGirl campaign.