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CDC: MRA claims that “40% of rapists are women” are based on bad math and misuse of our data

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Feminists often complain, with considerable justification, that Men’s Rights Activists try to turn every conversation about women’s issues into a game of “what about the men?” You’re talking about female rape victims — well, what about the male rape victims?

The trouble with this strategy, from the point of view of the Men’s Rights Activists anyway, is that this little “gotcha” is much less of a “gotcha” then they’d like it to be.

In the case of rape, for example, feminists are well aware that men are raped as well: the “Don’t Be That Guy” ad campaign, which sent so many MRAs into hysterics, focused on male victims as well as female ones. The emergency room rape advocate organization that a friend of mine volunteers for  provides advocacy for victims regardless of gender.

So many MRAs have started playing another game: trying to twist the conversation around in order to cast women as the villains. Rape is a bit tough for them here, since the overwhelming majority of rapists are male. So MRAs talk about the alleged epidemic of female false accusers instead. Or they change the topic entirely and make dead baby jokes (see my post yesterday).

Recently, MRAs have tried a new strategy, seizing on data from The National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, a massive study conducted in 2010 under the aegis of the Centers for Disease Control, to claim that “40% of rapists are women.”

This is a claim repeated by numerous MRAs on numerous websites; see, for example, this post by A Voice for Men’s Typhonblue on the blog GendErratic. Here’s the same claim made into an “infographic” for the Men’s Rights subreddit.

Trouble is, this claim is flat-out false, based on an incorrect understanding of the NISVS data. But you don’t have to take my word for it: the NISVS researchers themselves say the MRA “interpretation” of their data is based on bad math. It’s not just a question of different definitions of rape: the MRA claims are untenable even if you include men who were “made to penetrate” women as victims of rape (as the MRAs do)  rather than as victims of “sexual violence other than rape” (as the NISVS does).

I wrote to the NISVS for clarification of this matter recently, and got back a detailed analysis, straight from the horse’s mouth, of where the MRA arguments went wrong. This is long, and a bit technical, but it’s also pretty definitive, so it’s worth quoting in detail. (I’ve bolded some of the text below for emphasis, and broken some of the larger walls of text into shorter paragraphs.)

It appears that the math used to derive an estimated percentage of female rapists … is flawed.  First, we will summarize the assertion and what we perceive to be the basis for the assertion.

According to the web links, the “40% of rapists were women” was derived from these two steps:

1)      Combining the estimated number of female rape victims with the estimated number of being-made-to-penetrate male victims in the 12 months prior to the survey to conclude that about 50% of the rape or being-made-to-penetrate victims were males;

2)      Multiplying the estimated percentage (79%) of male being-made-to-penetrate victims who reported having had female perpetrators in these victims’ lifetime with the 50% obtained in step 1 to claim that 40% of perpetrators of rape or being-made-to-penetrate were women.

None of these calculations should be used nor can these conclusions be correctly drawn from these calculations.

First the researchers clarify the issue of definition:

To explain, in NISVS we define rape as “any completed or attempted unwanted vaginal (for women), oral, or anal penetration through the use of physical force (such as being pinned or held down, or by the use of violence) or threats to physically harm and includes times when the victim was drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent.”

We defined sexual violence other than rape to include being made to penetrate someone else, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and non-contact unwanted sexual experiences. Made to penetrate is defined as including “times when the victim was made to, or there was an attempt to make them, sexually penetrate someone without the victim’s consent because the victim was physically forced (such as being pinned or held down, or by the use of violence) or threatened with physical harm, or when the victim was drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent.”

The difference between “rape” and “being made to penetrate” is that in the definition of rape the victim is penetrated; “made to penetrate” by definition refers to cases where the victim penetrated someone else.

While there are multiple definitions of rape and sexual violence used in the field, CDC, with the help of experts in the field, has developed these specific definitions of rape and other forms of sexual violence (such as made to penetrate, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and non-contact unwanted sexual experiences). We use these definitions to help guide our analytical decisions.

Now the researchers get into the details of the math:

Regarding the specific assertion in question, several aspects of mistreatments of the data and the published estimates occurred in the above derivation:

A.      While the percentage of female rape victims and the percentage of male being-made-to-penetrate victims were inferred from the past 12-month estimates by combining two forms of violence, the percentage of perpetrator by sex was taken from reported estimates for males for lifetime (a misuse of the percentage of male victims who reported only female perpetrators in their lifetime being made to penetrate victimization).  This mismatch of timeframes is incorrect because the past 12-month victimization cannot be stretched to equate with lifetime victimization.  In fact, Table 2.1 and 2.2 of the NISVS 2010 Summary Report clearly report that lifetime rape victimization of females (estimated at 21,840,000) is about 4 times the number of lifetime being made-to-penetrate of males (estimated at 5,451,000).

B.      An arithmetic confusion appears when multiplying the two percentages together to conclude that the product is a percentage of all the “rapists”, an undefined perpetrator population.  Multiplying the percentage of male victims (as derived in step 1) above) to the percentage of male victims who had female perpetrators cannot give a percentage of perpetrators mathematically because to get a percentage of female rape perpetrators, one must have the total rape perpetrators (the denominator), and the number of female perpetrators of this specific violence (the numerator).  Here, neither the numerator nor the denominator was available.

C.      Data collected and analyzed for the NISVS 2010 have a “one-to-multiple” structure (where the “one” refers to one victim and the “multiple” refers to multiple perpetrators).  While not collected, it is conceivable that any perpetrator could have multiple victims.  These multiplicities hinder any attempt to get a percentage of perpetrators such as the one described in steps 1) and 2), and nullify the reverse calculation for obtaining a percent of perpetrators.

For example, consider an example in which a girl has eight red apples while a boy has two green apples.  Here, 50% of the children are boys and another 50% are girls.  It is not valid to multiply 50% (boy) with 100% (boy’s green apples) to conclude that “50% of all the apples combined are green”.  It is clear that only 20% of all the apples are green (two out of 10 apples) when one combines the red and green apples together.  Part of the mistake in the deriving of the “50%” stems from a negligence to take into account the inherent multiplicity: a child can have multiple apples (just as a victim can have multiple perpetrators).

D.      As the study population is U.S. adults in non-institutional settings, the sample was designed to be representative of the study population, not the perpetrator population (therefore no sampling or weighting is done for the undefined universe of perpetrators).  Hence, while the data can be analyzed to make statistical inferences about the victimization of U.S. adults residing in non-institutional settings, the NISVS data are incapable of lending support to any national estimates of the perpetrator population, let alone estimates of perpetrators of a specific form of violence (say, rape or being-made-to-penetrate).

E.      Combining the estimated past 12-month female rape victims with the estimated past 12-month being-made-to-penetrate male victims cannot give an accurate number of all victims who were either raped or being-made-to-penetrate, even if this combination is consistent with CDC’s definition.

Besides a disagreement with the definitions of the various forms of violence given in the NISVS 2010 Summary Report, this approach of combining the 12-month estimated number of female rape victims with the 12-month estimated number of male victims misses victims in the cells where reliable estimates were not reported due to small cell counts failing to meet statistical reliability criteria.  For any combined form of violence, the correct analytical approach for obtaining a national estimate is to start at the raw data level of analysis, if such a creation of a combined construct is established.

So you’re going to need to go back to the drawing board, MRAs.

What is especially distressing here is that the NISVS data could have been the starting point for a serious discussion of male victims of sexual assault by women, which is a real and often overlooked issue. Unfortunately, MRAs have once again poisoned the well by misusing data in an attempt to exaggerate the purported villainy of women and score cheap rhetorical points.

NOTE: A regular in the AgainstMensRights subreddit approached the NISVS researchers with this same question some months back. Unfortunately, the statement they got back from the NISVS contained an incorrect number. The statement I’m quoting here corrects this number and adds more context.

I can provide contact info for the NISVS representative who got back to me on this to any serious (non-troll) person who requests it.

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Marie
11 years ago

@Shaun DarthBatman Bay

Marie, it makes perfect sense. Sending all the hugs you want and/or need, and some extras for your family for being cool/decent.

I don’t feel like I need that many hugs, but I always like them anyway :3

So I quote them back to themselves with their abuse highlighted and tips on how not to be an ass to someone who is ill/hurting/in need.

That’s a good thing to do. Hopefully some of it sticks with them.

Brooked
Brooked
11 years ago

@Tamen

How many mainstream media articles on the NISVS 2010 Report did you see report:

“1 in 5 women and 1 in 71 men have been raped in their lifetime”

versus

“1 in 5 women and 1 in 71 men have been raped and 1 in 20 men have been made to have intercourse without their consent”

The first one effectively erases the existence of the 4.8% of men who were victims of this.

You need to take this up with the journalists who did a piss poor job when they wrote articles discussing the CDC study. I don’t see how the CDC or David are responsible for their slipshod journalism.

The list below is taken from the eight page CDC’s Executive Summary, which I assume functions as a press release for journalists too lazy to read the full report. You can disagree with the terminology but I think it’s disingenuous to accuse them of minimizing male victims when they are in fact providing extremely useful data about male victimization.

Key Findings
Sexual Violence by Any Perpetrator

• Nearly 1 in 5 women (18.3%) and 1 in 71 men (1.4%) in the United States have been raped at some time in their lives, including completed forced penetration, attempted forced penetration, or alcohol/drug facilitated completed penetration.

• More than half (51.1%) of female victims of rape reported being raped by an intimate partner and 40.8% by an acquaintance; for male victims, more than half (52.4%) reported being raped by an acquaintance and 15.1% by a stranger.

• Approximately 1 in 21 men (4.8%) reported that they were made to penetrate someone else during their lifetime; most men who were made to penetrate someone else reported that
the perpetrator was either an intimate partner (44.8%) or an acquaintance (44.7%).

• An estimated 13% of women and 6% of men have experienced sexual coercion
in their lifetime (i.e., unwanted sexual penetration after being pressured in a nonphysical way); and 27.2% of women and 11.7% of men have experienced unwanted sexual contact.

• Most female victims of completed rape (79.6%) experienced their first rape before the age of 25; 42.2% experienced their first completed rape before the age of 18 years.

• More than one-quarter of male victims of completed rape (27.8%) experienced their first rape when they were 10 years of age or younger.

Shaun DarthBatman Day
11 years ago

Howard, Dave has stated that he thinks “made to penetrate” should not be called “rape”. And I have stated why it should. I will restate for you.

1. Rape is having your body stolen and used against you in the most painful and personal way possible. I believe MTP fits that description, and it is the description I use to describe rape to those who have not experienced it. It seems to help them understand sometimes.
2. Subcatagorising rape is not a Sysiphean task, we already do so.
3. Under Canadian law, all sexual assault including rape is labelled as sexual assault. When we do this I believe that it permits the media, among others, to call rape “sex”. Call it all rape, do not allow rape to be in any way related to sex.

Blair
Blair
11 years ago

37% of rape victims in 2010 were raped by women.

Even if you interpret rape victims as having multiple rapists, the above statement is almost the same. I did, however, never make a statement specifying the number of rapists that were women… That is simply a misinterpretation of what I wrote.

Statistical interpretation can be tricky but I think we can finally agree that my math supports the wording of the above conclusion.

Ally S your critique is based off an interpretation I didn’t provide. Stop attacking the strawman. And the other guy who rambled on about number of rapes per person, you were right, and so I slightly adjusted the conclusion to satisfy that condition.

That whole purpose of drawing attention to the ~50% of rape victims in 2010 were men, and ~37% of rape victims in 2010 were raped by women, is to raise awareness that men are victims, and women are perpretators, in substantial numbers. Mainstream media would lead you to think 99% of rapists are men, and <10% of rape victims are men. That falsehood has a negative impact on male victims because it unfairly causes society to dismiss their plight since they are incorrectly percieved as being the overwhelming force behind rape occurances. Who cares if men are raped when it's other men doing it? <- Dumb thinking like this.

The easiest thing to do to counter this unfairness to male victims is to use what resources are available, almost always from feminist organisations, to figure out the prevalence of male victims and female perpetrators.

Honestly, I calculated that 37% like a year after I did the 50%. Male victims was really my only concern but the argument get getting trampled on because people think it's a non-issue since they believe men make up 99% of rapists. It's bizzare but that's what necessitated the 37% figure.

To think that people still considered MTP victims not rape victims still blows my mind in this day and age.

Howard Bannister
11 years ago

@Shaun –

What I’m saying is that even if what you are saying is exactly true and exactly right, that your before comment is exaggerating David’s position and making it say things it does not.

More broadly, I’ll add, that as I said before, I have had discussions with a man who was, as a child, raped. A lot of the reason I’m hesitant to jump into any discussion about what is and isn’t categorized as rape is because I have a suspicion he’ll read this and I’m not going to start quantifying his experiences for him.

sparky
sparky
11 years ago

So, trying to catch up here and a little confused:

Is the issue the way the CDC defined “rape” and “made to penetrate” as separate categories? It seems to me that: a. Whether or not you agree with the CDC’s separating these, nobody here is arguing that MTP is “not as serious” or “not as bad” as forced penetration; b. I can understand why the CDC would make separate categories, but I do not agree with the terminology used. The aim of the study is to describe victims of sexual violence, it seems like the researchers were attempting to break down what types of sexual violence victims were experiencing, not attempting to put a value judgement on the victims experience. That said, rape is a word that in and of itself evokes strong emotions (as it should), and just by classifying one form of sexual violence as “rape” and another form as something else, it seems like the CDC are minimizing the experience of the victims of those forms of sexual violence (whether they intended to or not). So, no, while I agree that MTP and forced penetration are different acts, both are rape, and it seems like the CDC could have found a better way to label their categories (like, why not use “forced penetration” and “made to penetrate” to seperate the categories and put them both under the category of “rape”?).

But anyway you slice it, you can in no way, shape or form make any inferences about perpetrators, because this is a study about victims.
(And, correct me if I’m wrong, but multiplying a percentage with a whole number gives you garbage, right? I mean, if you wanted to know the percentage of rapists who are women, you need the total number of rapists and a breakdown of male rapists and female rapists, right? I mean, it’s been a long time since Stats. class, but I’m pretty sure that’s how that works).

I think someone here posted this a while back (not on this thread), but it also explains why the “40% of rapists are women” number is way wrong. 11:10 is hilarious.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phM3XLHp0CY

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Blair — toss a caveat about having to guess at that 1/5th thing in there and yeah, that’ same valid statement. Give me a minute to grab a real computer (I’m on my iPad) and I’ll do the math using the lifetime data.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“And, correct me if I’m wrong, but multiplying a percentage with a whole number gives you garbage, right?”

Depends on context. Like, the survey, 1,640 replies, ~60% (off the top of my head, it might be a smidge more) are cis women, you can multiply those for the number of replies from cis women. You need the variables to relate properly though, which is the issue with lifetime perpetrator state being applied to 12 month data.

Shaun DarthBatman Day
11 years ago

Howard, no, that’s pretty much exactly what he said. He never said it was less, or more, serious, he did say that made to penetrate is not, in his opinion, rape, that it is sexual violence. I am absolutely *not* misrepresenting. I could quote everything he said on this, but the fact is that this one specific statement of belief is, in my opinion, damaging and hurtful to survivors who were MTP and that is why I have focused on it. And yes, I know men who have been raped, molested, sexually assaulted, abused. They can define/quantify their experiences in any way they want, as can women, but we can still define “rape” for legal and ethical purposes.

SittieKitty
11 years ago

Blair, can you please use blockquotes, or quotation marks, or something! your comments are impossible to read. I can’t tell what you’re saying and what’s being quoted.

And regardless, there’s already been a takedown of the numbers. the 40% figure is wrong.

Blair
Blair
11 years ago

Argent I could care less about the lifetime data because the ratio is heavily skewed in favor for women for reasons that are completely unknown. If we conduct this study every year and always get 30-40% of rape victims were raped by women, you best have a VERY good reason to stand behind a lifetime rate that is 18x larger than the 12 month rate vs men’s 5x larger ratio. That is 3x the magnitude difference. It simply does not make sense, the number doesn’t pass the bs alarm. I’m not going to make any inference about which rates may be understated or overstated, I just think there is no problem looking at the issue from an annual perspective because rape incidences will be fresh on the minds of those surveyed, and are also more likely prosecutable aswell.

When you do your lifetime math, and it’ll be easy to do, I’d like to see you back up the lifetime:12 month discrepancy with some facts, because I’m not seeing how such a discrepancy is possible… Just rolling with it is poor practice and is indicative of the shoddy work put in by the researchers. All anomalies in the data should at least be noted, not ignored. Who gave these people a degree?

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

Blair, bro, do you even math?

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Argent I could care less about the lifetime data

And this is why no thinking person should take you seriously, you dishonest chucklefuck.

Marie
11 years ago

Argent I could care less about the lifetime data because the ratio is heavily skewed in favor for women for reasons that are completely unknown. I

So, Blair pretty much just admitted he’s ignoring lifetime data because it doesn’t give him the results he wants, right?

Howard Bannister
11 years ago

I could care less about the lifetime data because the ratio is heavily skewed in favor for women for reasons that are completely unknown.

Firstly, “in favor.”

Secondly, “unknown.”

Lastly, fuck you.

Howard Bannister
11 years ago

Howard, no, that’s pretty much exactly what he said. He never said it was less, or more, serious, he did say that made to penetrate is not, in his opinion, rape, that it is sexual violence. I am absolutely *not* misrepresenting. I could quote everything he said on this, but the fact is that this one specific statement of belief is, in my opinion, damaging and hurtful to survivors who were MTP and that is why I have focused on it. And yes, I know men who have been raped, molested, sexually assaulted, abused. They can define/quantify their experiences in any way they want, as can women, but we can still define “rape” for legal and ethical purposes.

…and I think you’re missing my point.

Okay.

I’ll just take a breather and come back to this when I feel a little less emotionally charged about it. Sorry.

SittieKitty
11 years ago

[…] the lifetime data because the ratio is heavily skewed in favor for women for reasons […]

please explain how you know this. kthx.

If we conduct this study every year

Which we haven’t

and always get 30-40% of rape victims were raped by women

Which we haven’t

I’m not going to make any inference about which rates may be understated or overstated

Except you did

from an annual perspective because rape incidences will be fresh on the minds of those surveyed

A) rape doesn’t exactly go away from the memory

B) lifetime stats are more accurate, the larger the population the more accurate the number, that’s true of all studies – it’s why a study of 1000 people will trump a study of 100 people when they get two different results

are also more likely prosecutable aswell.

Kinda irrelevant, not sure why this is even mentioned. And also inaccurate, once any amount of time has passed where physical evidence is gone (assuming there was any to begin with), you don’t have a higher chance of prosecuting regardless of if it was 1 year or 10 years.

I don’t even math and I know this shit. Come on, you’re just being lazy.

Shaun DarthBatman Day
11 years ago

Howard, I am so sorry, clearly I am missing your point. Anytime.

Ally S
11 years ago

Ally S your critique is based off an interpretation I didn’t provide. Stop attacking the strawman.

If I misread your comment, I apologize, but my criticisms are still relevant; you said this:

The CDC made no attempt to actually do the calculation for MRAs, because they are literally bickering over a couple percentages. Why go through the trouble of writing that long email debunking a straw man argument, only to conclude with the correct figure that is a few percentages smaller.

You made it sound like the CDC only had one argument against the MRAs. They didn’t, hence my reply.

Ally S
11 years ago

Argent I could care less about the lifetime data because the ratio is heavily skewed in favor for women for reasons that are completely unknown.

It’s too bad that you need the lifetime data to, you know, make the claim about 40% of rapes being perpetrated by female rapists because the statistics on the sex of the perpetrators are based on lifetime data. You can’t be this dense.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Well, I did the math, because I don’t hit refresh while doing math, and fuck, I like math!

So then, warning, long. The non-math-inclined should skip to the last two lines.

Women raped using lifetime data –14,617,000
Men MTP using lifetime data — 5,451,000

Number of perpetrator(s) reported by women —
1 – 71.2%
2 – 16.4%
3+ – 12.4%
98.1% male

Number of perpetrator(s) reported by men —
1 — 92.1%
2+ — unknown (assuming 100% – 92.1%)
79.2% female

Total Number of Rapes Against Women (number of women raped * percent with X rapists * X)
14617000 * .712 = 10407304
14617000 * .164 = 2397188 * 2 = 4794376
14617000 * .124 = 1812508 * 3 = 5437524

10407304 + 4794376 + 5437524 = at least 20,639,204 rapes against women
20639204 * .981 = 20,247,059~ of them by men
20639204 – 20247059 = 392,145 by women

Total Number of Rapes Against Men (number of men raped * percent with X rapists * X)
5451000 * .921 = 5020371
5451000 * (1-0.921) = 430629 * 2 = 861258

5020371 + 861258 = at least 5,881,629 rapes against men
5881629 * .792 = 4,658,250~ of them by women
5881629 – 4658250 = 1,223,379 of them by men

Total Number of Rapes Committed by Gender
5,881,629 (total number of rapes against men) + 20,639,204 (total number of rapes against women) = 26,520,833
392,145 (female on female) + 4,658,250 (female on male) = 5,050,395 rapes committed by women
20,247,059 (male on female) + 1,223,379 (male on male) = 21,470,438 rapes committed by men
5,050,395 / 26,520,833 = 19%~ of rapes are committed by women (note that because of repeat offenders, this does not mean that 19%~ of rapists are women, it does mean that 2010 was an outlier though)
The remaining 81% were, of course, committed by men.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

And they did explain why both time frames were surveyed, and that answer implies why there is such a difference —

Lifetime and 12 Month Prevalence Estimates of Violence

Lifetime prevalence refers to the proportion of people in a given population who have ever
experienced a particular form of violence. Lifetime prevalence estimates are important
because they provide information about the burden of violence within a population.

12 month prevalence provides information about the proportion of people in a given
population who have experienced a particular form of violence in the 12 months prior to
taking the survey. Twelve-month prevalence estimates provide a snapshot of the recent
burden of violence in a population. When collected over multiple years, 12 month estimates
can be used to assess trends in the burden of violence over time (suggesting whether
violence may be increasing or decreasing).

Page 22. So no, the 12 month data does not tell you shit about the number of rapes committed by women, it could tell you the number of rapes committed by women over those 12 months, if we had the stats on perpetrators over those 12 months, but we don’t, and thus it doesn’t.

Joseph M. Ama
Joseph M. Ama
11 years ago

This article makes me upset. I was raped by a woman before, and I can’t tell a soul because people assume I’m an MRA and start attacking me. Same thing with my ex-wife whomping the living crap out of me every time I wouldn’t do what she told me to, they assume I’m an MRA and start telling me I deserve it because I “hate women”.

I wish I haven’t read this article, because it brought up old memories and pain and there is no way for me to express it, I just have to sit on it and let it fester…

cloudiah
11 years ago

Toy Soldier, that asshat, is even trying to use LBT’s comment here against him. Gah, he is seriously the most dishonest asshat with a blog.

diz
diz
11 years ago

http://toysoldier.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/a-dose-of-stupid-v95/

Pingback? Pretty damned good takedown of this piece by toysoldier.

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