Categories
antifeminism gross incompetence mansplaining men who should not ever be with women ever MRA reddit

Redditor fights Jaclyn Friedman’s accusations of Men’s Rights misogyny with … more misogyny

Proper credentials are very important in internet arguments
Proper credentials are very important in internet arguments

Well, so far this is my favorite response to Jaclyn Friedman’s American Prospect piece on the Men’s Rightsers and that woman-hating problem of theirs. Because what better way to refute charges of misogyny than by declaring derisively that you “can usually spot whether or not a woman wrote a piece by the first few sentences?”

Let’s let rjworks13 explain just why Friedman lacks the intellectual heft to be taken seriously by serious men with credentials — sorry, CREDENTIALS — like him:

rjworks13 3 points 5 hours ago (4|1)  I'm still uncertain if posting these pamphleteer hack writers should be posted in this men's rights forum. Hear me out. CREDENTIALS: I'm a long-time trained technical and creative writer from male-based military training and put to use over 20 years. I've gotten so gifted (or cursed) that I can usually spot whether or not a woman wrote a piece by the first few sentences. I'm probably one of the few males who have read all of Susan Faludi's work - she's actually an impressive writer, feminist or no.  Jaclyn Friedman is a hack huckster. She's at the low end of the feminist writer pool with a Master's of Fine Arts in Creative Writing. Not impressive. Her claim to fame is to act as rear guard for Women, Action and the Media (WAM), a watchdog organization to exploit the missives of any opposition to the feminist movement which now controls the media. Unlike Susan Faludi, her intent is not to give any men's groups a fair shake. Notice how she took down every sub-group of the MRM. That's her strategy - to flesh out any and all real or perceived faults with the MRM by attacking it's sub-parts. Her writes are propaganda in style telling women how to think about MRAs, MGTOW and man (including players) in general. Our response should be simply that we dismiss anything written or published by Jaclyn Friedman and those like her.  MRMs should practice and demonstrate a standing rule. "We do not recognize individuals or groups who use deceptive rhetoric, lies, indifference propaganda or hate tactics, to shore up opposition against the the benevolent efforts of egalitarianism of any sexual orientation, seeking the manifestation of legislative egalitarian values." My 2 cents.

Oh boy.

I have to say that very favorite sentence of all in this wondrous bit of HeManWomanHatersplaining is this one, if it can even be called a sentence:

CREDENTIALS: I’m a long-time trained technical and creative writer from male-based military training and put to use over 20 years.

Oy. I can only assume from the evidence of this, er, sentence, that as a technical writer his job is to make sure that instruction manuals are as unreadable as possible. And that his “creative” writing most likely consists of many volumes of self-published Gorean porn.

If you want to compare Jaclyn Friedman’s CREDENTIALS with his, you can always go to her Wikipedia entry. I looked around a bit for rjworks13’s Wikipedia entry, but he doesn’t seem to have one.

rjworks13 was evidently so proud of this bit of writing of his that he deleted it. Luckily, I grabbed a screenshot beforehand. ABS: Always Be Screenshotting.

PS What’s “indifference propaganda?”

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

253 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Scary Trees (@AaronMDellutri)

Semi-serious question: is there anyone on Reddit who is not a complete douchebag? Seems like Reddit is just infested with MRA’s, libertarians, and/or idiots.

pecunium
7 years ago

Whut? CREDENTIALS: I’m a long-time trained technical and creative writer from male-based military training and put to use over 20 years.

Having written training materials for the Army this is ridiculous gibbering.

Scary Trees (@AaronMDellutri)

male-based military training

What is this male-based training? Learning to fight with your dick?

serrana
serrana
7 years ago

This is my favorite sentence by “Mr. long-time trainted technical and creative writer from male-based military training and put to use over 20 years.”

Her writes are propaganda in style telling women how to think about MRAs, MGTOW and man (including players) in general.

That just makes my day.

My step-mom was an editor of technical manuals written by Navy personnel. She had to do a lot of work to make most of them coherent.

Gillian
7 years ago

Yeah, he can tell work written by a woman because it has fancy-schmancy things like subject-verb agreement and proper grammar and all that?

My favorite line? “Her writes are propaganda in style…”

Imma file this mess under “Writing, poor, prime examples of”

La Strega
7 years ago

The MRAs never fail to take umbrage when they are associated with PUAs — and vice-versa — even though they are appealing to the same base (pun intended) and are united in the same “goal” of dehumanizing all women and most men.

bodycrimes
7 years ago

Why is it, do you think, that the MRA guys hate, hate, hate women with liberal arts qualifications so much? Is it because these women use them to climb over the thousands upon thousands of would-be media people and actually get jobs in the MSM and publish books with the Big Six that turn into bestsellers? I still fail to see how these women acquired ‘worthless’ qualifications for ‘make work’, as the manosphere would have it.

La Strega
7 years ago

Among the tolls that reading the manosphere takes on me is the fear that my own abilities to logically construct an argument (or even a comprehensible sentence) are being eroded by constant exposure to so much bad writing.

La Strega
7 years ago

@bodycrimes

They genuinely fear intellectuals because they cannot compete with them, and many of them (Roosh, Forney and Price come mind) are full of sour grapes because they want nothing more than to be taken seriously as thinkers / writers.

HeatherN
7 years ago

Ah, the “I’m not a misogynist, you cunt,” response. Always my favourite.

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

Her writes are propaganda in style telling women how to think about MRAs, MGTOW and man (including players) in general.

I thought he was a long-time trained technical and creative writer from male-based military training and put to us over 20 years?
Maybe my literary edumacation is too weak to recognise his superior writes skills, but his writes really don’t scan. At least, not to my feeble wordbrain.

Our response should be simply that we dismiss anything written or published by Jaclyn Friedman and those like her.

So, reject anything she writes, regardless of content, because of her “claim to fame” and perceived flaws in a single write? Is it just me, or is that just a blanket ad hom? “You’ve a Creative Writing masters, and you wrote what I consider a bad article once, so you’re wrong in perpetuity.” Way to logic there, bucko.

katz
7 years ago

I did an informal little survey of people’s ability to guess the gender of a writer a couple years back and I keep meaning to do a bigger, more rigorous one sometime. I’d send it to this joker first.

Ashley
7 years ago

“I’m not a misogynist, you cunt,” should pretty much be their mantra.

toujoursgai
7 years ago

Hack Huckster: punk

Her Writes: riot grrl

La Strega
7 years ago

@ katz

I’ve been thinking about field-testing this myself by assuming a masculine pseudonym a la George Eliot and the Bronte sisters. I’m also rather curious if writing under an assumed male identity would change my own writing style.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Oh hey pecunium, you know you were my first thought when I saw that gibberish?

Gonna guess he means he spent 20 years doing grunt work and is also doing (shitty) creative WRITTING…uh, autocorrect? Why is that all caps and spelt wrong? He does shitty writing, as do you.

theladyzombie
7 years ago

So lemme get this straight; these buttsmears scream to the heavens that women are incapable of doing STEM because BIOTRUFFS, yet when they encounter a woman with a liberal arts degree(s), they quiver in rage because REASONS (even though, according to them, that’s all women are capable of).

Murrrrrr

Interestingly enough, whenever I pass my writing through the Gender Guesser, it usually comes up male. Note – it’s my “serious” writing that I do for my job and my fiction scribblings.

http://www.hackerfactor.com/GenderGuesser.php

I’ve spent the day making pies! I was given something like 2 dozen apples last week. I can’t eat them all before they go bad, so I made pies and crisps. My place smells wonderful right now. Mmmm!

katz
7 years ago

La Strega: Like James Tiptree Jr.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

I’m apparently either scoring as “weak male” (I’m assuming that’ swear as in a weak correlation) or European male. Well, I have had Brits claim I belong over there (it’s a round about damnit and that oatmeal is disgustingly watered down!)

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

That’ swear = that’s weak

Really autocorrect, really?

katz
7 years ago

The gender guesser always says I’m male; if it’s better than a random guess, it’s only slightly so. It would be more interesting if they tried to isolate what factors they’re actually measuring: What genres you’re writing? What authors influenced you? What classes you did or didn’t take?

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

Hmm… I come out as weakly female with an indication toward European for my fictional writing… and weakly male with an indication toward European for my ranting on here.
I wonder if that’s a reflection of gender neutrality, or if it’s just a coinkydink?

thebewilderness
7 years ago

I think indifference propaganda is this: “Our response should be simply that we dismiss anything written or published by Jaclyn Friedman and those like her.”

They seem to think it is examining and writing about what the various sub groups of MRAs say they think.

La Strega
7 years ago

@ katz,

That Gender Guesser was fun. I ran several samples from my blog through and consistently was evaluated as having a “weak male” voice. Still doubt if I could “pass” as a male writer when evaluated by actual human readers though.

http://www.hackerfactor.com/GenderGuesser.php

La Strega
7 years ago

Just ran a recent post by Matt Forney through the Gender Guesser and it was assessed “weak female.” Hmmm….

Gillian
7 years ago

Weird. My academic writing comes across as strongly male (87% in the informal and 64% in the formal) and my blog writing as weak male, suggesting European.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
7 years ago

I tend to come out as a weak male for both my fiction and my nonfiction (academic work and student newspaper). For those Manboobzers who have forgotten, I’m female. I’ve also never been to Europe.

Google also attempts to guess your gender, based on your browsing history. You can check it here: http://www.google.com/settings/ads‎, along with the rest of Google’s guesses at your identity (age, interests, etc.).

Google corrected ID’s me as female, but guessed me age a little to old. (I’m 22, it guesses 25-35).

When I surveyed students at my college, Google was only correct 50% (actually, a little less, but only by one person in an odd sample) of the time for guys, but 80% of the time for women. I think there is something about using a computer for academic work that leads to Google thinking you are female.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
7 years ago

Incidentally, I’ll try to get more snuggling pictures of the little buggers in my avatar. Pan (the tabby) is only half a pound less than Jade, who is four months older than him. They are still snugglebugs.

often_partisan
often_partisan
7 years ago

@ La Strega – OMG Forney is a toooooooootal mangina lol [/sarc] Seriously though I just ran David’s piece on the Elam/Hembling video through it and it rated it as male…so clearly David is much more of a man than Matt Forney! 😉

cloudiah
7 years ago

wordsp1nner, Yes please, on the snuggling kitty pictures!

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

“I write things too, but I write MANLY things because I am a MAN who does MANLY THINGS. Grammar is not MANLY, nor is subject-verb agreement, so I won’t use them because I am a MAN doing MANLY THINGS. HEAR MY MANLY ROAR!”

*nod*

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: Scary Trees

Learning to fight with your dick?

“I see your schwartz is as big as mine, but can it handle as well?”

BritterSweet
BritterSweet
7 years ago

I turned out to be informally male, and formally weak European female.

Regarding that Redditor, meh. Nothing unexpected.

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

RE: gender guesser

I’ve used it before, I tend to come up either male or weak male, possibly European. Example: my blog posts tend to lean towards “male”, especially in the informal category.

katz
7 years ago

Still doubt if I could “pass” as a male writer when evaluated by actual human readers though.

Obviously it’s time to find out. Whoooooo wants to send me writing samples to put into a gender-guessing survey? Send ’em to this temp email: katz@forward.cat

oserchenma
7 years ago

I ran my article “Radical Feminism in the 21st Century” through the Gender Guesser. The result was “male”. I suppose it’s one reason I was targeted and harassed and terrorized by A Voice for Men afterward. I write strongly and with authority. I think they agree with my premise, that there may be a biological component, not just a sociological component, to violence. But they got awful mad at my conclusions. Still, my conclusions were perfectly logical. 🙂

vliet

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Ugh, I can’t do that gender thing. It’ll just make me grouchy.

AK
AK
7 years ago

That gender guesser is fun. I’m apparently very strongly male regardless of whether I’m writing fiction, informal blogs or formal papers (well, I got one weak male/possibly European for a piece I did on animal communicators, which is hilarious to me on several levels); I guess that follows since I’m a butch lesbian feminazi* and all.

*you know, like all of us are because otherwise we wouldn’t be commenting here

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Uh, Katz, what should I put for gender if I send you one? This is evo psych shit right? So gender = anatomy at birth?

katz
7 years ago

Argenti: No, just put your preferred identification. (I think I’ll have male/female/other/don’t know as the options.) The evo psych people can bite me.

Scary Trees (@AaronMDellutri)

@katz | October 26, 2013 at 5:02 pm

Send ‘em to this temp email: katz@forward.cat

I’ll send you one. Aaron Dellutri.

La Strega
7 years ago

“so clearly David is much more of a man than Matt Forney! ;)”

Well, I think we already knew that!

katz
7 years ago

(If you send something to me, please keep it short, up to 200 words. And include whatever name you want it to be attributed to.)

Karalora
7 years ago

I ran a sample of one of my fanfics through Gender Guesser and it came up male for formal writing and weak male/European for informal. A fanfic, people. The work it’s based on is also written by a woman. Though she is European, so there’s that.

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

katz – sent you three samples. Sorry if they happen to be long.

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

Addendum – Shit, I didn’t read your request to make it less than 200 words. Oops. >_>

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

If he’s no longer recognizing those who use deceptive rhetoric, lies, hate and indifference propaganda, POOF! He’s no longer an MRA. He himself may well fail to exist by his own measure.

Propaganda’s a lot of things, but indifferent isn’t one of them.

katz
7 years ago

Alice: Not to worry, I can truncate.

Hyperio
Hyperio
7 years ago

@Scary Trees

Semi-serious question: is there anyone on Reddit who is not a complete douchebag?

Minecraft subreddit is rather decent – but it has its rules that forbid sexism among other things, and it’s focused on a game. So far I didn’t see anything that would break the rules so I guess it’s rather well moderated.

I avoid most of the reddit for obvious reasons though.

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

hellkill – Indifferent propaganda. I wonder what it would look like.

Something like this?

1 2 3 6