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Vox Day: The Taliban’s shooting of Malala Yousafzai may have been “perfectly rational and scientifically justifiable.”

Malala Yousafzai, survivor
Malala Yousafzai, survivor

Vox Day, the reactionary fantasy author and pickup guru who was recently expelled from the Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America , has convinced himself that education for women leads to “demographic implosion” because uppity educated women don’t have enough babies.

Indeed, Vox — real name, Theodore Beale — is convinced that education for women is such a bad thing that he actually thinks that “the Taliban may not, in fact, be the stupid ones with regards to this particular matter.”

By this he means not only that they’re right to keep girls out of schools, but that they’re also probably justified in shooting teenage girls for the terrible crime of speaking up publicly in favor of education for girls like themselves.

No, really:

[I]n light of the strong correlation between female education and demographic decline, a purely empirical perspective on Malala Yousafzai, the poster girl for global female education, may indicate that the Taliban’s attempt to silence her was perfectly rational and scientifically justifiable.

It’s quite telling that it is the “shooting-girls-in-the-head” issue that turns Beale — a right-wing evangelical Christian — into something of a fan of the Taliban.

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cloudiah
7 years ago

NO TRUE STRAW MAN!!!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Don’t like, mostly. I’ll eat some shellfish if the sauce is ginger based, and I don’t mind crab but think it’s too much effort.

You have a point about the bug thing though. The first time I saw a crawfish I thought it was some kind of giant mutated roach.

jinxmchue
7 years ago

“And now the NO TRUE RACIST argument arrives.”

You’re obviously a racist. Any denials of that conclusion will clearly be nothing more than “the NO TRUE RACIST argument.”

I’m a black man, though I look white. Any denials of that conclusion will cause you to be guilty of “the NO TRUE BLACK MAN argument.”

Incidentally, regarding the “No True Scotsman” fallacy… you’re doing it wrong.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Aw, look, it attempted a burn. Bless it’s little heart.

jinxmchue
7 years ago

Cue the “NO TRUE FALLACY argument.”

jinxmchue
7 years ago

The puerility you all display is profound, but nonetheless pretty disappointing. I expected better, particularly given your initial responses.

inurashii
inurashii
7 years ago

“Yo if we’re all a bunch of lying joke hypocrites and we don’t understand anything, why are you even here?”

It amuses me to watch ignorant, hateful buffoons dig themselves into very deep holes that they can’t escape.

Eyyy we got something in common. I’m glad we’re all amused, then.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Why won’t people argue with me? It’s what I live for!

(Meltdown officially commenced quite a while back. Although to be fair, this one was already a bit melted upon arrival.)

Enkidum
Enkidum
7 years ago

Well, just to keep it puerile, what you’re saying is fucking stupid. You (and whatever silly cult you belong to) don’t get to be the arbiter of what counts as Christian or not.

For the record, there have been a couple of other responses to you that aren’t just making fun of you. Freemage made the definitive one, which I notice you’ve ignored completely:

“jinxmchue: Trinitarians are all Nicene Creed Christians. But the creed didn’t come about until hundreds of years AFTER the events alleged in the Gospels. (Find me a description of the Holy Ghost in the Gospels, by the by. Hell, find me a direct reference to the Trinity as such.) Anyone who interprets the Gospels in a different fashion, which many of the fragmented cults at the time did, is still a Christian; they’re just not a Nicenean Christian.”

opheliamonarch
7 years ago

I’m so loving this lurk. 🙂

I bought popcorn and:

http://youtu.be/RP4abiHdQpc

It’s a metaphor! The baby is me, the No True Troll is the paper. 🙂

katz
7 years ago

(Confidential to katz: Should we start the countdown?)

Doesn’t have to be a countdown. It can be a wager.

$500 and a penguin in Spanx on half an hour.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I’m still not sure why zie expects us to care about whatever little inter-group squabbles various Christian denominations are having.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Aww, ze thinks referring to a person of color as a “half-savage” and not fully human and not civilized and blaming people of color for the decline Detroit, science fiction [aside: science fiction is declining? News to me, genre seems quite healthy], culture and society isn’t racist.

Trolls say the darndest things.

inurashii
inurashii
7 years ago

Also, the age-old classic: “Calling a racist a racist is racist” and “Being a minority means that I can say who is not racist”

katz
7 years ago

People, I give you the NO TRUE CHRISTIAN argument. I’ve rarely seen it unfold in real time. I feel like I’m making a nature documentary, and should be speaking in very hushed tones.

Oh, I’ve seen it all the damn time.

Back when I was at a Reformed church in the days of yore, they were planning a missions trip to the Philippines, and I was like “Dude, the Philippines are way more Christianized than the US” (~92% to ~75%, according to the CIA world factbook) and they were like “Well they say they’re Christians but really they’re just practicing their ancient Pagan religions under the guise of Christianity” and I was like “Yeah, that’s pretty racist.”

(I don’t go there anymore.)

cloudiah
7 years ago

NO TRUE PUERILITY! + NO TRUE PAGANISM! (Now 50% off if purchased together.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

NO TRUE CRUSTACEANS! At least not in my lunch, please.

cloudiah
7 years ago

NO TRUE MANGRY MELTDOWN!!!

inurashii
inurashii
7 years ago

“No, I’m not angry, I’m snide, you hypocritical puerile no true joke racist. This vein popping out of my forehead is a snide vein.”

katz
7 years ago

You have to be drowning in hubris to make that sort of argument; you have to actually believe that you and your sect are in charge of deciding who does or doesn’t belong in a group of more than a billion people. It has to never occur to you that other groups might have their own opinions and might well consider you to not be a real Christian, nor to wonder who wins if two groups each say that the other is heretical, nor even to question whether the other group would even care if you think they count or not.

And then there’s that word “cult.” There are legit uses for this word based on rigorous definitions, but when you start throwing it around like “This group denies the divinity of Christ! They’re a cult!”, then you’re just using it as a way to immediately delegitimize them so you can shun and ignore them.

Z
Z
7 years ago

Jinxmchue? That Jinxmchue?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia:Jinxmchue

Note the “GLENN BECK CRY-BABY AWARD FOR PUERILITY”. 🙂

vaiyt
7 years ago

“Aww, ze thinks referring to a person of color as a “half-savage” and not fully human and not civilized and blaming people of color for the decline Detroit, science fiction [aside: science fiction is declining? News to me, genre seems quite healthy], culture and society isn’t racist.”

Don’tcha know, black people are the true racists.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Hold on, back up.

The claim was that Vox Day isn’t an Evangelical.

He is a self-described Evangelical.

Ah, but trolly mctrollerson points out, that doesn’t agree with several large groups of evangelicals self-description of a True Evangelical.

Well, no shit, sherlock. I’ll happily stipulate that he doesn’t belong to your One Twue Church. And, furthermore, has serious problems with their doctrine.

But he still belongs to a movement. That movement is, in a broad sense, describable.

You can quibble about whether he’s a true christian all day long, and I don’t fucking care.

But he belongs to a movement, a tradition, and that’s completely undeniable.

And he’s a racist. That’s also undeniable. He espouses racist beliefs. While saying he’s not racist, but that’s standard.

These are NOT COMPLICATED THOUGHTS.

Learn to nuance, mmmmkay?

emilygoddess
7 years ago

@Freemage it turns out the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the Bible. Per Wikipedia:

Two examples appear in the New Testament: 2 Corinthians 13:14 and Matthew 28:19. The context of 2 Corinthians 13:14 (verse 13 in the Vulgate), which is the close of a letter, suggests the church’s conjunction of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit may have originated as a doxological formula; while the context of Matthew 28:19, the Great Commission, shows that the verbal conjunction of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit was used early on as a baptismal formula.

I followed the links and didn’t find any direct claim that these beings are all the same being, though.

But yeah, non-trinitarianism isn’t exactly new. Like most of the doctrines codified by early church councils, the Trinity was only made an issue in the first place because there were people who didn’t accept it. And if you’re one of the many Christians who don’t recognize the infallible authority of a bunch of 4th-century dudes who appointed themselves the arbiters of Christianity, you aren’t bound by Nicene doctrine.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Since he’s not a white supremacist both by his own admission and by undeniable facts about him, I wonder why you wish to continue to lie about it. Personally, I don’t care for him or his beliefs. I don’t read his blog, his articles, or his books. I just don’t like it when people like you lie in order to try to smear individuals and, by proxy, larger groups.

Jinxy: you’re clearly a no-talent assclown. If you don’t care for him, don’t read his shit, and admit you know nothing, why in the fuck are you here?

katz
7 years ago

Howard: I think you may be oversimplifying; there’s a pretty complex interplay between self-defined group membership, group membership as defined by the group itself and its leaders, and group membership as defined by objective criteria.

kittehserf
7 years ago

ophelia, got any spare popcorn? You’re right, this is spectator sport at its finest.

Enkidum, I don’t think I’ve seen you post here before – hi, and have you had a Welcome Package yet?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

So we’ve attracted some other site’s eldertroll? Let’s poke him some more, maybe he’ll say something funny.

Enkidum
Enkidum
7 years ago
Reply to  kittehserf

@kittehserf Thanks for the lovely gift, I’ll look over it at my leisure. Never posted here, not a regular reader either but I’ve read a dozen posts or so. I’m a mostly-lurker-occasional-commenter at Pharyngula, and, y’know, this looked like a fun argument so why not? (Although the first thing that got me going was the incorrect description of Japanese abortion practices earlier in thread.)

I feed trolls, so if that bothers y’all sorry about that.

katz
7 years ago

Our modus operandi is feeding trolls until they pop, so you should fit right in. (And Pharyngula commenters are our natural allies.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Dear jinxy – which particular denomination do you belong to? Please explain why it is the One True Version of Christianity.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Howard: I think you may be oversimplifying; there’s a pretty complex interplay between self-defined group membership, group membership as defined by the group itself and its leaders, and group membership as defined by objective criteria.

A little bit, yeah, but remember, we’re talking about ‘evangelical Christianity’ here–that’s like saying ‘mainstream Protestant’. We’re not talking about whether or not Vox is a Baptist in good standing, we’re talking about whether he falls into this broad group of denominations and Christians who by and large have huge disagreements with each other.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

(I didn’t mean that to come off as ‘splainy or cross at you, Katz–I find the original ‘He’s not an evangelical, nor a racist’ comment really, really irritating)

opheliamonarch
7 years ago

@z, that RationalWiki, sooo much entertainment.

@Enkidum, Welcome. I’m not up to feeding today, so if you could do my share that would be great.

@kitteh, hey love, only toffee popcorn for me, none of that salted American crap. 🙂

katz
7 years ago

I didn’t mean that to come off as ‘splainy or cross at you, Katz

Not at all! I just think that, while he is both Evangelical and racist, it’s not necessarily a simple thing to define.

inurashii
inurashii
7 years ago

is he gone? Seems like he’s gone.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

I browsed wikipedia on the subject of evangelical Christianity. Fascinatingly enough, now I do kind of want to push Vox Day out… on the grounds that he’s too radicalized for it.

Evangelicalism has therefore been described as “the third of the leading strands in American Protestantism, straddl[ing] the divide between fundamentalists and liberals”.[13]

…really? I have never heard it used in this way.

Of course, I’m used to hearing it from the other side of that cultural divide, so YMMV.

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

Enkidum: I hope you saw my full-bore retraction/apology in the other thread re: abortion in Japan. I appreciate the correction.

***
BTW, it’s worth noting that Jinx claims to be an atheist. I’m not going to say he’s not an atheist, but I WILL point out that he’s very, very bad at atheism, in that he has opted to refer to some specific sects as ‘true Christians’ while others are merely ‘cults pretending to be Christian’. Anyone who believes in the divinity or Christ is a ‘Christian’–from the atheist viewpoint, distinctions among those groups is little more than an obscure trademark dispute.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

BTW, it’s worth noting that Jinx claims to be an atheist.

…whaaaaa?

Oh, god, please don’t come back, Jinx, please… you’re making my brain hurt, and you’re not even here…

Enkidum
Enkidum
7 years ago
Reply to  freemage

freemage: Yup, saw it. Nice to talk to people who are capable of quickly admitting they’re wrong when they are.

I kind of miss Jinx, but I don’t think he’s coming back. Or maybe he’s looking up bible quotes to try and find an explicit statement that all Christians need to follow the interpretations laid down by some bishops 300 years later?

Anyways, I have literally pissed away half my workday futzing around online so I probably won’t be around for a while. Thanks for keeping it scintillating, y’all.

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

Oh, wait–I think he was being sarcastic. I admit, my eyes were starting to blur after awhile of reading his drivel. His exact quote was, “I’m an atheist who believes in God.” while trying to make the argument that the term Christian has a specific meaning and can’t be applied to those outside that meaning, and (unstated) that his specific position defined that. So maybe he’s not an atheist after all.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Oh, good. The other way was just too infuriatingly for words.

katz
7 years ago

I’m pretty sure he’s not an atheist and he just said that as an example to justify why he should be able to decide who’s an evangelical and who isn’t.

katz
7 years ago

I browsed wikipedia on the subject of evangelical Christianity. Fascinatingly enough, now I do kind of want to push Vox Day out… on the grounds that he’s too radicalized for it.

Well, he is too radicalized for it. Mainstream evangelicals don’t really do the hardcore racism, violent rhetoric, etc like fundamentalists do (think mainline Republicans vs Tea Party).

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

See, I have grown up thinking of ‘evangelical’ as a wider catch-all term that encompasses most fundamentalists as well as the more moderate strains of doctrine and even portions of mainline Protestantism, rather than just those between the two.

drst
drst
7 years ago

OK can we refer all future trolls demanding we prove the thing they claimed to jinxy in the future? Since he’s the ultimate authority on everything, instead of us linking to stuff like research and statistics that the trolls will ignore, we can just tell them to go find jinxy and have him arbitrate? Cause I’m tired of having trolls come in here and demand we prove the thing they’re arguing somehow. This would speed the process up measurably.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

drst — but I like drowning them in statistics!

Also, hedgehogs, SQUEE

SittieKitty
7 years ago

I thought a Christian was anyone who believes that Jesus is divine? Nothing about the rest of any beliefs. It’s similar to how the one defining true feature of Atheism is that they don’t believe in a god, and yet they can have any number of various other beliefs that contradict each other’s beliefs…

Yeah, since that’s an actual definition that makes complete sense and is true, I’mma go with that…

And, you can’t be racist against white people – there’s no institutional power prejudice against them.

kittehserf
7 years ago

@kitteh, hey love, only toffee popcorn for me, none of that salted American crap. 🙂

nom nom nom