So I’ve been skimming through the mass of comments that the Daily Beast piece on the Men’s Rightsers now has trailing in its wake. So far I think this is my favorite exchange.
Yep, that’s DriverSuz — aka Suzanne McCarley, “Senior Editor” of A Voice for Men.
And yep, that’s Angry Harry, the fellow that many MRAs call “the father of the men’s rights movement.”
Some critics of this blog complain whenever I quote some crackpot commenter rather than one of the “big names” in the Men’s Rights movement. Sometimes, it turns out, the crackpot commenters ARE the “big names” in the Men’s Rights movement.
Oh, PLEASE. No one’s freeze peach is being taken away.
Thanks for taking this convo exactly where I thought it would go.
Hellcat and titian blue. Yes, what I’m saying is that there has been already a very clear divorce of the word cunt from a reductionist term, and I for one, have been using it (sparingly – it really is the premier insult) for 50 years. I’m pretty sure my grandparents were using it the same way, but I can’t honestly speak for any other time scale as the etymology of the word is actually notoriously hard to track down.
So back to my point – telling people “you’re wrong, and you’re also stupid for not knowing what this word really means” is something I’m seeing a lot at the moment. Which is why I wanted to give a different cultural perspective.
If what hellcat says is true and the word is already weaponised beyond reclamation, I’m incredibly saddened by that, because its been a very important word and useful word in my life to date. But I still hold out hope that it can be reclaimed. And stops being used to insult women simply for being women. But I’m a bit of an idealist that way
Hellcat? Can you not fucking read?
I can’t wait until Cassandra gets a load of this.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Hellcats_F6F-3%2C_May_1943.jpg/300px-Hellcats_F6F-3%2C_May_1943.jpg
did not work
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Hellcats_F6F-3%2C_May_1943.jpg/300px-Hellcats_F6F-3%2C_May_1943.jpg
Oh FSM, another person who wants to defend using gendered insults? Hint: Using it as an insult is perpetuating the problem, not “reclaiming” the word.
FFS.
Oh darn, I’m really sorry guys. I didn’t mean this to be taken as an insult by anyone here. I’ve been following Manboobz for nearly a year now and I’ve only posted a couple of times. Titian blue, no I’m not trying to bullshit anyone, that really has been my experience and understanding of the term growing up in the UK. Inuashii, yes, I want it to stay a slur but not against women for being women. Hellcat – I don’t even get this whole ‘free speech’ malarkey and I’m certainly not trying to defend it. I just wanted to show a bit of support for other people who may not be, and may never been using the word cunt to be misogynistic. I’m not trying to make excuses, just expressing where it comes from and why it’s used the way it is.
I really do accept and understand why people wouldn’t want to reclaim it. But it’s just my wish that it could be. I’m very sorry if I’ve caused offense, that wasn’t my intention. And now I’m going to look like a total troll because I have to go to work but I can only promise I’m not a troll and am willing to be held to account later. I have a huge amount I’d respect for Manboobz regulars and what you’re doing here. Truly
I’m still boggling at the idea of Terrene’s granny cheerfully using “cunt” on a not irregular basis. Especially, since Terrene musr be at least 50 if zie has been using the word that long.
Hell, my most colorful male relatives of that generation never used it in mixed company. And we’re talking naval men with a fine line in blasphemy, here.
Terrene: would it be too much trouble to get my name right? Thanks ever so much.
Oh hellkell I ‘m so sorry! I’ve been completely misreading your name this whole time. I really can’t apologise enough. I feel such a fool. Ok – I’m just making things far, far worse and I’ll completely stop. Going to work now. Please, I’m really happy to be held to account later. I’m really sorry to have started a stir. Please don’t send don’t send Cassandra after me, I’ve learned my lesson! I never meant to sound like one of those people! Stopping now…
Terrene, most people may not realise that using the word is misogynistic. They are not trying to be deliberately misogynistic when using it. That’s not what we’re saying. We’re saying that using the word for female genitalia as an insult is inherently misogynist and helps perpetuate misogyny, whatever the intentions of the user.
And I’d love to have met your granny.
titianblue: I’m not sure that most people don’t know that word is misogynistic. To me, it’s right up there with the N-word, and I’m sure most people know exactly how loaded that word is.
As a teen I visited England with something I referred to as a “fanny pack” ; I still bear the emotional scars resulting from that lesson in quirky British slang.
If anyone wants to dive into the topic, here’s a link:
“Snatch,” “Hole,” or “Honey-pot”? Semantic Categories and the Problem of Nonspecificity in Female Genital Slang
http://tinyurl.com/kgxqx42
Hellkell, you’re probably right. I sometimes doubt how often people actually think about the language they use, is all.
@Brooked, yep, in the UK, “fanny” is definitely not an innocent word.
Oh, yeah, I’m sure the thinking isn’t there.
You know, I have never actually heard anyone employ “cunt” as an insult. Maybe it has been THAT taboo for THAT long, at least in some circles. My associations with it are pretty benign since my first encounter was “Lady Chatterley’s Lover,” and then a friend of the ElderSlut persuasion who grunted it at random during boring military formations, just to break the tedium with a bit of naughtiness. (Love her; god, given the choice between winding up like Sunshine Mary or my friend at midlife I would definitely take the latter!)
Anyway, at this point, I think if someone called me that, I’d be more baffled and amused than angry.
@auggz, in the UK, “fanny” doesn’t mean “backside”, it means “vagina”
auggzillary: This is a fanny pack:
http://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Leather_Fanny_Pack.JPG
Oop
I meant to say, oops sorry, reading comprehension fail on my part. Coupled with a posting fail.
Terrene, It’s okay; if you apologize and move on I doubt anyone will hold a grudge.
@dvarghundspossen