The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of people.
Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.
It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.
Here’s what it gets right:
1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.
2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.
As Kelly notes:
Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …
Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.
Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:
According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.
It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.
In other words: Cool story, bro.
3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,
the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.
“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”
Indeed, Kelly writes:
It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.
But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.
1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.
2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.
3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?
I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.
4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!
Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!
Nah, I’ve been single for the last three years, how could it possibly be TMI? 😛
It’s the latter. There’s only one place that I’m aware of that isn’t absolute bliss to have skin-based contact with a loved one, and that’s where I’ve got a little skin tag/mole thingie on my back that seemingly has no nerves in it. Others may exist, but I just haven’t been prodded there yet to know it.
Mmm chocolate covered mint!
…okay, my mind is really in the gutter today, I’m gonna shut up before I eat my foot.
Alice – I doubt that’s what was meant. Though whether “most men” actively want that (as in having thought about it and come to the douchebag sexist’s conclusion) or just haven’t given it a moment’s thought/don’t consider housework “work” (even though they totes don’t want to do any, cos they work, don’t they?) is debatable.
But seriously – someone claiming to be a feminist shrugging this off?
Fish babies count! Fish babies count DOUBLE!!
(Because, cute as human babies are, fish babies are less icky and loud.)
That makes sense! I’m much the same with Louis.
And yeah, skin tags are the. feckin. worst. I hate ’em!
Speaking of human babies, anyone heard from Falconer? He hasn’t been online for a while.
*blushes even more furiously* I’ve got something in common with A King!
Srsly, though, basically how it pans out for me is that anywhere I’m normally ticklish is an erogenous zone when I’m horny. And I’m really ticklish, so… yeeeaaaahhhh 😀
Jesus, man. So according to Bill’s Wife (which is a great moniker for a self-professed feminist, implying that she has no personality or agency beyond being that internet creep’s wife), feminism is largely a luxury of a decent economy, to be made completely irrelevant if the jobs dry up and the whole works goes sideways. Then I guess “white knights” swoop in bearing mammoth meat and the gods’ gifts of fire and fish knives (in America, of course; European women will be on their own. Or maybe they’ll have to double or triple up on their rare ‘nice guys’). If that’s a thought that actually crossed your mind, “Bill’s Wife” and you’re not just pulling our chains here, you don’t know the first thing about feminism. Beyond that, you have absolute shit taste in men.
Yeah, that is odd. And it’s sad, because the ideas that the MRA espouses isn’t harmless. It can and has hurt people.
I think Falconer dropped by (very briefly) last night or this morning? I recall there being a link to his album of <3BAYBIEEEESSSS<3 that I saw today.
Alice, I want to believe that, but…
Bill’s wife is just giving me way too strong of a vibe of “The worst possible extreme isn’t happening now, so what’s the problem?” Nobody is getting rid of DV laws, so what’s the problem? Women aren’t all going back to being housewives, so what’s the problem? People aren’t abolishing higher education for women, so what’s the problem?
Which, it really doesn’t matter what ideology you subscribe to, that’s just terrible thinking and it’s hard to believe any grown-up could have that complete a lack of grasp on subtleties, practical outcomes, and societal attitudes.
Plus if that’s the logic, you’d really have to can all the men’s rights issues. If a state’s laws don’t explicitly say that only the mother gets custody, then there must not be a custody problem. If doctors and hospitals don’t refuse to treat men, then there must not be a health problem. If boys are allowed to enroll in schools and colleges, then there must not be an education problem.
I think we scared her away…
I’d say you’d HAVE to have a pretty lax grasp on subtleties to stomach being married to Price, in addition to being pretty immature.
I bet Price would get off on that combo.
*yawns*
Hey, are there photos of Price anywhere? Just curious.
You are being massively generous, but she said men want a housewife “and for the wife to work on top of it”.
No way to slice that to mean “equal share of work and chores.”
@kittehserf
LOL…I just don’t want to be a jerk about someone’s relationship no matter how vile I think one of them is. It just sounds like she’s describing two different people. If it’s true, I just can’t believe someone who calls themselves a feminist can be with someone like that. I mean fuck, if anyone has a rationalization hamster it’s her.
It’s not like I think one who is a self described feminist needs to be partners with another self described feminist either. Disagreeing on things is relationships is common, but I think for a relationship to work out in the long run, the couples can’t have radically differing views. For me personally, my only requirement is that a man I’m with to not be anti-feminist or MRA. He doesn’t have to be feminist either. As long as he believes in equality. Actually someone who is rather neutral to feminism is probably best for me since discussing these issues can be quite stressful and I don’t think I’d like debating them all the time.
But a feminist who not only marries and MRA, but one as extreme as him AND manages to handwave away all his shitty views because he likes history, has a high IQ and is broad shouldered? Does not compute. At all.
It’d be funny if this would all cause a shitstorm like the Mark Minter thing lol.
In fairness, I’m guessing she picked the handle “Bill’s wife” to clarify who she is in relation to this discussion.
I believe she’s female– if you got acculturated to American society within one of its many weird subcultures it’s not surprising you’d pick up a lot of the lingo without knowing it’s odd. (I’m reminded of a Japanese girl my brother met whose idea of American culture was largely formed by an exchange year with a Mormon family in Utah. ha)
“Top ten percent in physical attractiveness” made me blink a bit; when have you ever heard a woman describe a man like that?!”
“Yeah, Kevin is a pain in my ass, but when he was younger, he was in the top ten percent for physical attractiveness!” :p
@Quackers
That’s pretty much how I feel. I honestly don’t want to be rude to her (if it is her) and I hope I haven’t been. It’s just… such a huge WAT, and the explainations we’re getting are pretty weak.
Not that she has to explain herself, but she did come to us trying to do just that.
So, I don’t know, Bill’s Wife, if you’re still here. I don’t think you’re going to convince us of anything. I hope you’re honestly happy and stuff, but I don’t get it. We don’t get it. Just… be careful? I don’t know. I can’t type that enough. I do not fucking know.
@ceebark
That top ten percent comment was another red flag for me, as it reminded me of that okCupid study MRAs keep citing to prove hypergamy. Because the study said women on the site considered most men to be below average in looks. However what they failed to mention was that men on there will send messages to only the most attractive women.
So in reality, it’s actually men who are the hypergamous ones, choosing the hottest women. Women on OkC might think most men are below average, but they will still message them, giving them at least a chance.
Study is here btw: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/
Top ten percent? I missed that in the wall o’ text.
Gee, it’s nice being an outlier. I googled Mr Tall Handsome Broad Shouldered 10% and … meh. Just another dude.
dustydeste:
LOL!
I hadn’t even thought of the ticklish/erogenous crossover. (Thinks: no, m’lord, that does not mean tickling my feet is a good idea.)
Hmm, he says he’s not ticklish there, but that spot always gets him.
As a famous person said, the human body is weird!
I don’t have the mental energy to respond to Bill’s wife. Just 1) I’m going to assume she is who she says she is, and I do respect the fact that she came here with her side of the story. 2) I disagree with her assertion that the MRM et al are harmless, and lots of other folks have explained why they are not harmless better than I can. And I still think Price is wrong in everything he’s written. And I think we have different definitions of feminism, or maybe espouse two different schools of feminism; but the “white knight” comment kinda gets my sensors on alert, y’know? But whatever.
As far far as lip gloss/lip balm: For me, a good (relatively) cheap lip balm I can get at the drug store is Eos. But it’s just a lip balm and doesn’t have any pigment in it (but it does protect your lips well!)
Higher price tag lip gloss? This:
http://www.josiemarancosmetics.com/shop/lips/lip-treatment-duo
@baileyrenee Like you said, she came here to explain herself. This isn’t a safe place for professional misogynists or their apologists. If she’s actually this dude’s wife, she’s married to a hateful, harmful, regressive douchebag. I don’t think being nice to these people should be a priority. We get nothing from the exchange with her other than a lot of weak-sauce, middling, MRA half-stepping. She’s a fool and reading her crap here makes my skin crawl.
Or, if they’re the NiceGuys(TM) of OKCupid, they’re so far below the average – and I’m not even talking about looks here – they don’t even get into the stats!