Categories
a voice for men are these guys 12 years old? johntheother lying liars misogyny MRA

The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

1.9K Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Those ! Should be ,

But you know, keep ’em, it works.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

Athywren: It’s probably Audio Engineering he got his degree in.

YES! That’s the guy. Ver’ cool, my brother. :3

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
11 years ago

… wait, is it the existence of moustaches that makes the world a hostile place? MOAR HOSTILITY PLZ

I drew mine on with magic marker!

kittehserf
11 years ago

Freeform jazz I wouldn’t care if I never heard again! Actually most jazz leaves me cold, unless Glenn Miller counts as jazz.

Hmm, good Renaissance music … Hesperion XX (or XXI, I’ve lost count) do a lot of good CDs. It’s years since I bought any early music CDs, though, so my knowledge isn’t exactly up to date.

::plugging obvious favourite:: L’Orchestre de Louis XIII shows how the music changed in the early 1600s. It’s mostly by one composer, collected by his son (or grandson, I forget) and the style really does change in the space of a decade or two from Renaissance to Baroque.

My first exposure to the music of the time was in the 70s, watching The Six Wives of Henry VIII and Elizabeth R as a kid. The music for those was done by the Early Music Consort of London, led by David Munrow. It’s not all of the period; they did put in stuff from earlier and later in some bits, this being for TV. But it has that strong reed instrument (I think) sound that’s so Tudor for me – sackbutts and the like. Love it.

Michael Praetorius is a much-reproduced composer, or collector, of dance music around 1600; his Terpsichore turns up everywhere.

Two Renaissance Dance Bands by the Early Music Consort of London is another good one. I don’t know if it went to CD, I’ve got it on LP.

Hoping this is the right piece: Bouree d’Avignonez, 1615, by Philidor the Elder

http://youtu.be/lbyjzCrEtCQ

kittehserf
11 years ago

gillyrosebee – well done well done well done!

/Neddy Seagoon moment

pecunium
11 years ago

And, because McGee will not bother to read elsewhere:

The burden of proof is always on the person making an assertion or proposition. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum ad ignorantium, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion being made. The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise.

The person making a negative claim cannot logically prove nonexistence. And here’s why: to know that a X does not exist would require a perfect knowledge of all things (omniscience). To attain this knowledge would require simultaneous access to all parts of the world and beyond (omnipresence). Therefore, to be certain of the claim that X does not exist one would have to possess abilities that are non-existent. Obviously, mankind’s limited nature precludes these special abilities. The claim that X does not exist is therefore unjustifiable. As logician Mortimer Adler has pointed out, the attempt to prove a universal negative is a self- defeating proposition. These claims are “worldwide existential negatives.” They are only a small class of all possible negatives. They cannot be established by direct observation because no single human observer can cover the whole earth at one time in order to declare by personal authority that any “X” doesn’t exist.

Some more on the forming of propositions, and the proof of negative claims:

It is possible to prove rather specific negative claims that are made with rather well defined limits. If the area to be searched is well defined and of a reasonable size that permits searching then a negative claim might be capable of being proven. For example, if one claims that there is no apple in the top desk drawer of a desk then all one needs to do is to open the top desk drawer indicated in the claim and examine it for its contents. Finding no apple therein would provide sufficient evidence under ordinary circumstances to verify or confirm the negative claim that there is no apple in the top desk drawer.
In this regard Irving Marmer Copi writes:
“ “In some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of its occurrence as positive proof of its non-occurrence.” – Introduction to Logic, Copi, 1953, Page 95

You can prove a specific negative claim by providing contradictory evidence. An example of a proof of a rather specific negative claim by contradictory evidence would be if someone were to claim that the one and only watch that you own is in the top drawer of the desk. You make the negative claim that it is not in the drawer and you see it clearly on your wrist. There is no need to look in the drawer.

You can also prove specific negative claims that can be rephrased as a positive claim. If someone claims that the lights are not on in room 442 that claim can be rephrased as claiming that the lights are off in room 442.

So, as this shows, Denial Boy still has the burden of proof.

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

a double-blind survey of one or several rape victims

Laughing my ass off over here on how this sack of human waste thinks it’s possible to do a double-blind survey of a single person. Also related: His apparent complete lack of understanding of the importance of sample size in attaining useful data.

At any rate, I think I’ll leave off the yelling for a bit in favor of just laughing at how bullshit this is, since SOMEONE’S too much of a sad cowardly misuse of carbon to answer simple questions, and I’ve got a husband to canoodle with, some tasty Italian food (cooked by said husband) to enjoy, and a full day of making sad faces at Sears customer service people, putting the finishing touches on my Florentine gown, and meeting up with friends for Szechuan food tomorrow. I just can’t muster the necessary rage atmo.

Anyways, here’s a cute penguin! 😀

Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

*yawn* Can we discuss cookie butter?

Nah, I’m gonna talk about it anyways. Had my first spoonful of cookie butter today. It tastes like gingersnaps! So nommy with a glass and a half of milk. Mmmm.

Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

Also, Asshole McGee, I see that your degree from the University of Google’s showing. You can’t double blind a rape victim into thinking that their rape never happened.

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

Alice! I must know more about this “cookie butter” of which you speak! Tell me all!

No, really, that sounds hella tasty but I don’t know what it is or how to acquire it.

kittehserf
11 years ago

I’ve got a husband to canoodle with, some tasty Italian food (cooked by said husband) to enjoy,

Noodles and canoodles! Enjoy! 🙂

kittehserf
11 years ago

You can’t double blind a rape victim into thinking that their rape never happened.

Bet he wishes he could.

pecunium
11 years ago

Time to pack, off to a science fiction folk music convention tomorrow.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

What pecunium quoted, in little words the hostile one may understand —

You can’t prove that not one single person has been helped by the concept of rape culture. That would require knowledge of every last person on earth and is thus impossible. You can, however, disprove the theory that it has helped no one by demonstrating that it has helped someone.

Which we have done. Repeatedly.

Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

dustydeste – Someone here on Manboobz mentioned cookie butter, and told me that it was just basically peanut butter but with cookies. So I went to Trader Joes and bought a jar.

I just ate a heaping spoonful. NOMMMMSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Have fun, and stay remotely in touch with me? My brain is all messy.

Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

kittehs – You know, every time I see a rape apologist somewhere on the Internet, I’m often left to wonder whether these rape apologists have, well, raped somebody.

ESPECIALLY if they ask “how drunk is too drunk to consent?”. Then it’s red flags for me.

kittehserf
11 years ago

Alice – that’s exactly how I see it (don’t know if you saw what baileyrenee and I were saying upthread). Rape apologists, especially male ones, pretty much equate to uncaught rapists, to me.

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

Alice: Mmmmm, I will have to look for this confection when I’m near a Trader Joe’s!

Kittehs: No noodles tonight, actually! Probably for lunch, though. We eat a tremendous amount of pasta. More than when I was at uni, which I didn’t think was really possible, haha.

Pecunium: You’re going filking?! I’m jealous!

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Either un caught or would-be rapists. Some are surely trying to clarify what they could get away with.

kittehserf
11 years ago

deste – I was making a loose connection, pasta and noodles being much of a muchness to me. The rhyme was too much of an opportunity to miss. 😀

Argenti – good point, wannabes as well as not caught yet.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

@Kitteh, I do like that music! It’s not the sort of music I’d put on my ipod for pacing purposes (I prefer this sort of music for that:

… I walk fast. I use this kind if I want to take my time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgNqL2aTAYY )
but definitely evening music.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

deste – I was making a loose connection, pasta and noodles being much of a muchness to me. The rhyme was too much of an opportunity to miss. 😀

Mm… I used to think that, but then I tried to cook vermicelli as one would noodles… dark days.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Yeah, not all noodles are pasta, and not all pasta is noodles (now, the real question is, why is pasta a singular noun?)

pecunium
11 years ago

Deste: yeppers, off to OVFF

Where I will see old friends, sing some (though I never take my turn in circle, save to; perhaps, do some pennywhistle), meet some people I don’t know yet, and generally have a good time.

(yes, Argenti I will not not drop completely from the face of the earth).

1 67 68 69 70 71 75