Categories
a voice for men are these guys 12 years old? johntheother lying liars misogyny MRA

The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

1.9K Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
11 years ago

‘undetected’ as in: possibly, if not probably, never happened?

DING DING DING! (and trigger warning, btw)

And there we have it, folks. Only those rapes which result in convictions are real. If you were raped and were too scared to go to the police, or if they berated and intimidated you into withdrawing your accusation so that it didn’e affect their workload or crime stats, then your rape probably never happened!

SittieKitty
11 years ago

Yeah, I’m wondering how much that percentage translates to… If 1:10 are reported, 42-68% are cleared, 49% are convicted, and of that conviction rate 54% are sent to jail… I wonder what the average jail time is as well.

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

THIS IS NOT A STREET, AND YOU ARE HERE BEING AN ASSHOLE OF YOUR OWN VOLITION. IF YOU DON’T LIKE THE CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR ACTIONS, YOU SHOULD PROBABLY STOP SHOWING YOUR ASININE VIEWS OFF IN PUBLIC. IF YOU CAN’T ENGAGE IN CONVERSATION DIRECTED TO YOU WITH THE SAME AMOUNT OF RESPECT YOU GIVE TO OTHERS, FUCK OFF, YOU DELIBERATELY IGNORANT PILE OF SHIT.

OR ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTIONS.

Ally S
11 years ago

These were described as “undetected rapes,” by the way, meaning not reported. Now why wouldn’t a rape victim file a police report?

You’re denser than this concrete wall right next to me.

kittehserf
11 years ago

Because the world isn’t all tea scones and clotted cream. It takes a criminal justice system more than just a second to catch up with its enemies.

Aha! So if we make tea, scones and clotted cream available to all, the justice system will be 1) just and 2) swift!

If only we’d known it was so simple!

sparky
sparky
11 years ago

ahostileworld: You are weak, and cowardly. Answer dustydeste’s question.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

‘undetected’ as in: possibly, if not probably, never happened?


So you’re saying they admitted to having sex without the consent of the other person, despite it having never happened? That seems like a fairly foolish thing to do.

SittieKitty
11 years ago

Undetected means not happened? We do work on different languages apparently, because those don’t mean the same thing in English.

Rapist: Oh, yeah, I raped someone

Study author: Wow, and you’re not in jail, which means that it’s not something that’s been detected

Manboobzers: So those rapists who have admitted (6.4%) are people who have admitted to raping and have gotten away with it, thereby not being detected by society’s stats on crime.

ahostileworld: *completely ignoring that the rapist admitted to the rape* Oh, so they didn’t happen!

Manboobzers: Facepalm.

chibigodzilla
11 years ago

Availability of tea, scones and clotted cream aside, the problems with the criminal justice system seem to be centered not so much on swiftness, but on correctly identifying “its enemies”

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
11 years ago

That, to me, is analogous to street harassment. Please cease and desist.

And now he’s the victim, of course.

Because coming to a website and choosing to leave a comment that invites the scrutiny of those who can clearly see your idiocy is TOTES EXACTLY THE SAME as walking down the street, minding your own business and being yelled at just for being or appearing female.

dustydeste has been here for a goodly while now and established a reserve of good faith as a sincere interlocutor and not a troll. You owe an answer to questions asked in good faith, and if you refuse, there is no other conclusion for us to draw but that you are too chicken to do so.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

SittieKitty — at most about 1.5% go to jail (and 90% are never reported and thus free to carry on like they never raped anyone)

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
11 years ago

You know, I was just thinking “is rape culture real?”

And then I saw a rambling, weasily argument against it and now I’m convinced it isn’t.

Now if you’ll all excuse me, I have some PUA books to order!

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
11 years ago

Wait, if someone was totally a shoplifter when she was in her early teens (hypothetically, mind you) and she never got caught, does that mean it didn’t happen? Admitting later on that she repeatedly went into stores, picked things up, put them in her pocket, and walked out of the store without paying for it has no bearing on whether or not a crime was committed because no one caught her and she never called it stealing?

katz
11 years ago

Your incessant attempts at getting my attention have been noted…and rejected. You have long since realised that I do not wish to interact with you and still you ignore my obvious lack of consent and keep hectoring me for a response. That, to me, is analogous to street harassment. Please cease and desist.

The world isn’t all fresh mozzarella and sun-dried tomatoes with a drizzle of olive oil, princess. Sometimes nonconsensually speaking to someone is just necessary.

kittehserf
11 years ago

And the pro-rape stance of this troll becomes crystal clear. It was only a matter of time; it always is. Not reported? Didn’t happen. Not convicted? Didn’t happen.

I’ve emailed the Dark Lord about the rape joke. I think little rapetastic troll/sock is due for the banhammer.

katz
11 years ago

For those keeping score, things that are OK:

-Destroying art
-Burning down houses
-Murdering people
-Rape, as long as it isn’t reported to the police

Things that are not OK:
-Destroying books
-Cutting down telephone poles
-Talking to another commenter on a blog

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

The world isn’t all mango juice and vodka (pecunium must be thrilled!)

katz
11 years ago

The world isn’t all kittens and string.

kittehserf
11 years ago

gillyrosebee – of course, because rape only happens if the rapist admits it, and is convicted of it, and there’s DNA, and the victim was a white virgin who’d never had a drink in her life and was at home and wearing neck-to-floor enveloping clothes.

Even then it probably didn’t happen, because, well, she never cried out or fought or made it at all clear she didn’t consent, did she? It was a miscarriage of justice and she was lying and it never happened at all!

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

Things that are not OK:
-Destroying books

Unless it’s Harry Potter or Twilight!

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

Mind you, Twilight isn’t so perfect that a little flame couldn’t improve on it…

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

The world isn’t all immersive RPGs and physically accurate space flight simulations!

kittehserf
11 years ago

The world isn’t all kittens and string.

WHY NOT

http://youtu.be/OUlUJV2OwVo

SittieKitty
11 years ago

Twilight would be much improved by flame imo.

ahostileworld has stopped making any sense…

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

I wonder… if was quick about it, could I overrun the recent comments box just from commenting in this thread?

1 59 60 61 62 63 75