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a voice for men are these guys 12 years old? johntheother lying liars misogyny MRA

The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

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Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

I’ll catch up in a minute, but first, the German legal code on the matter

Section 177
Sexual assault by use of force or threats; rape

(1) Whosoever coerces another person

1. by force;

2. by threat of imminent danger to life or limb; or

3. by exploiting a situation in which the victim is unprotected and at the mercy of the offender,

to suffer sexual acts by the offender or a third person on their own person or to engage actively in sexual activity with the offender or a third person, shall be liable to imprisonment of not less than one year.

(2) In especially serious cases the penalty shall be imprisonment of not less than two years. An especially serious case typically occurs if

1. the offender performs sexual intercourse with the victim or performs similar sexual acts with the victim, or allows them to be performed on himself by the victim, especially if they degrade the victim or if they entail penetration of the body (rape); or

2. the offence is committed jointly by more than one person.

(3) The penalty shall be imprisonment of not less than three years if the offender

1. carries a weapon or another dangerous instrument;

2. otherwise carries an instrument or other means for the purpose of preventing or overcoming the resistance of another person through force or threat of force; or

3. by the offence places the victim in danger of serious injury.

(4) The penalty shall be imprisonment of not less than five years if

1. the offender uses a weapon or another dangerous instrument during the commission of the offence; or if

2. the offender

(a) seriously physically abuses the victim during the offence; or

(b) by the offence places the victim in danger of death.

(5) In less serious cases under subsection (1) above the penalty shall be imprisonment from six months to five years, in less serious cases under subsections (3) and (4) above imprisonment from one to ten years.(citation)

Please point out where it so much as implies that withdrawing consent makes it rape if he doesn’t stop.

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

ANSWER MY QUESTION, ASSHOLE.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“‘Not reported’? What do you mean by that?”

Denser than a goddamned black hole. This one really will do anything to divert attention from his rape apologia >.<

Not reported to the authorities you dumb fuck.

——

Thanks LBT, and Ophelia.

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

RE: dustydeste

You know he never will.

chibigodzilla
11 years ago

‘Not reported’? What do you mean by that?

Gee, that’s a stumper, if only there had been a following sentence…oh wait:

These were described as “undetected rapes,” by the way, meaning not reported. Now why wouldn’t a rape victim file a police report?

At this point zie’s being intentionally obtuse right? Is there any other way to interpret “not reported?”

ahostileworld
11 years ago

In the very first line (1). The key word here is ‘coercion’. If a person withdraws consent, then everything the other party will do henceforth will be coercion. At no point does the German law state that the required consent cannot be withdrawn at any time.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Intentionally feigning obtuseness seems likely. I may have to steele myself for his next little gem.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

‘undetected’ as in: possibly, if not probably, never happened?

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

You will not find many people who will say, ‘I think rape is hunky-dorey and should be made legal.’

No, you won’t find people saying those preise words* and you won’t find a crocoduck, yet evolution is still a thing.

*Though, as Pecunium said, plenty of people are outraged that having sex with someone who’s withdrawn consent should be considered rape, and that it should be legal. So, yes, people do argue that rape should be legal, they just don’t use those exact words.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Neither did the law in any of the states where this has been a legal question. Yet they needed to legally clarify both that this was, in fact, rape, and how long he had to remove his penis once she told him to do so.

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

Ah, @ahostileshallowness – yes, let’s debate the minutiae of the implications of the legal wordings. Yep, that’s the thing to do now. You have all the depth of a gutter.

sparky
sparky
11 years ago

“And yes, rape is widely condemned, and there are actually laws against rape. You will not find many people who will say, ‘I think rape is hunky-dorey and should be made legal.'”

Oh, but there are plenty of people who do think rape is hunky-dory. Lots and lots of people believe in rape myths; and belief in those myths do impact how rapists and victims are treated in real life.

Some fun articles I found about rape myth acceptance:


http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/3925/4925HomeComputer/Rape%20myths/Rape%20Myth%20Acceptance.pdf


http://web.aurora.edu/~rfraniuk/franiuk_rapemythheadlines_sexroles.pdf

And then all these:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=0&q=rape+myth+acceptance+survey&hl=en&as_sdt=0,39&as_vis=1

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

By all the gods! Undetected but admitted to by the rapist!

Would anyone like some chocolate? I’ve broken into my Halloween candy early because I have easily ten pounds of it.

Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

Argenti – Ah, makes sense. So xie = he/she, and zir = his/her.

I should use this more often in my Latin homework assignments. Funny, I was tempted to use xie yesterday when I was translating a sentence, but I went with she (the sentence had to do with farmers).

katz
11 years ago

‘undetected’ as in: possibly, if not probably, never happened?

Dammit, I was going to “INB4” him announcing that if it wasn’t filed, it didn’t happen.

SittieKitty
11 years ago

So in Canada the rapist gets to decide if he’s a rapist? You guys have a conviction rate up there? Or is it a flat 0?

I’m not sure what our conviction rate is, but it’s not high. I suspect our number being 1:3 instead of 1:4 has something to do with that aspect of rape culture though, and racism, we haven’t quite gotten over our colonial roots…

Rates are:

1:3 women, which is 5x higher than the rate of male victims.
1:10 sexual assaults are reported to police.
1/2 victims of reports to police are children under 18.
68% of aggravated sexual assaults occur in residences.
82% of all offenders are known to the victim.
97% offenders are male.
512,000 incidences overall. 427,000 female victims, 85,000 male.

Looking it up actually:

Canada has a 42, 45, 68% clear rate for police reports (Level1-sexual assault,Level2-sexual assault with a weapon,Level3-aggravated sexual assault respectively)
37, 47, 28% Not cleared

49% adult courts (63% for youth) come back with a guilty finding (Which TIL, that’s actually huge).
Proportion committed to custody after a guilty finding: 54% (12% for youth) – ie: go to jail
Proportion sentenced to probation after a guilty finding: 66% (78% for youth)

katz
11 years ago

So! How about that saying that killing people was off-limits on page 3 and then saying that it was OK on page 16?

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

Re LBT: I doubt it, too, but I see no reason to stop yelling *shrug* It’s easier than finding his house and burning it down in an attempt to make him pay attention.

Also, I hope you all feel better! It sucks you’re stuck, but I’m glad you’re at least stuck somewhere nice for the time being.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Huh, so the ones that aren’t cleared have a pretty high conviction rate, would not have guessed that.

Alice — iirc, in Latin any group with a single male is treated as a group of men. And I use ze, for linguistic reasons (you know much about the evolution of Latin over time? I applied similar principles to my choice)

ahostileworld
11 years ago

dustydeste, you are trolling. There is nothing wrong with that. It would be hypocritical of me to fault you for it, as I have been guilty of it myself in the past. But when you first approached me on this thread, you did it all wrong.

You see, trolling is like… like making love to a beautiful woman. If you go in too quickly, you well creep the other person out and consent will not be granted. I saw your creepy behaviour and avoided you and will continue to do so.

Your incessant attempts at getting my attention have been noted…and rejected. You have long since realised that I do not wish to interact with you and still you ignore my obvious lack of consent and keep hectoring me for a response. That, to me, is analogous to street harassment. Please cease and desist.

sparky
sparky
11 years ago

ahostileworld: Your insults are weak and your true colors are showing.

Lisak & Miller: We are talking about the men themselves who self reported engaging in acts that meet the legal definition of rape .
Remember, please, we are talking about the actual rapists, not the victims.
“Undetected” was the wording I the study; the studies authors expressed some alarm that these men had raped, and were not in jail.
But facts don’t really matter at this point; as you are a rape apologist.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Oh now that’s just special. Someone else handle that, my game just got interesting, Baali is a whole new ball game.

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

Yep @ahostilepoo, an attempted rape joke from you was all that was needed.

Enjoy chomping on the chew toy, boobzers. I’m off to bed.

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

‘undetected’ as in: possibly, if not probably, never happened?

In other words, “If someone is raped in the forest and there’s nobody there to report it, did it really happen?”

You see, trolling is like… like making love to a beautiful woman.

…wat.

This guy has gotten quite a bit more entertaining since my chat with them. And dude, if you ain’t trolling right now, what ARE you doing?

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

HEY COWARDLY ASSHOLE, ANSWER MY QUESTIONS, YOU IGNOMINIOUS DOUCHEBAG

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