The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of people.
Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.
It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.
Here’s what it gets right:
1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.
2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.
As Kelly notes:
Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …
Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.
Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:
According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.
It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.
In other words: Cool story, bro.
3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,
the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.
“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”
Indeed, Kelly writes:
It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.
But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.
1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.
2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.
3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?
I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.
4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!
Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!
Given that we used to have an incredibly dim Scottish MRA troll, I feel your pain.
@ Kittehs
Yeah, I know, I just wanted to talk about that story because it was so frustrating to read.
Yea… I can’t be the only one who doesn’t think education is an issue (in the way I hear MRA-types frame it) for men. It’s a weird thing that more and more men aren’t interested in college or university, though I can’t help but think that it mostly looks that way since more and women are interested in college or university. More women going to school doesn’t sound like a problem for men to me.
Anyway, I felt the same way about this article as it seems everyone else did. He should have been more critical, but I get that he wants to make it clear that an MRM of sorts wouldn’t be a bad idea (just not the one we have now). I did enjoy the debunking of John’s bullshit stories though. Someone else mentioned it already, But David, you should really send the author your links about Price.
If anyone needs a laugh, check out the comments on the article; one guy named “MENSRIGHTS,” or something, keeps posting giantic walls of text that read like something from a white nationalist manifesto. Fucking ridiculous.
Pant puppies? I like the sound of that! I’ll get to work, sewing new pockets into mine!
<3
The problem -if you can call it a problem- with cat videos is that they always link to more cat videos at the end…. what year is it now?
Which majors? I’m reading The Girls of Atomic City right now, and one of them was prevented from majoring in Engineering even though she’s slogged through all the prep courses. The only vaguely hard sciences discipline they would allow her to take was Statistics. 0_o
Hi, I’d like to explain a few things. First of all, I do not define my husband merely based on The Spearhead, there’s more to him and much more than meets the eye. If we put aside The Spearhead for a moment, there are several qualities that he has as a person that are valuable to me: 1) he has a very high IQ and we share many interests (literature, ancient European history, travelling, scenic beauty, languages); 2) he is physically attractive – he is tall, broad shouldered, quite my type and in his youth was in the upper 10% of men in terms of physical attractiveness; 3) he treats me quite well, acknowledges my persona, and has invested a lot in our relationship showing that he cares. Also, he’s been very different to me in person from how he is online. What he believes is one thing, but he has treated me quite well in person, surprisingly. There are other aspects which are significant but too personal to share (that are irrelevant to gender war).
Second, I do call myself a “feminist” partly to as a sign of defiance – there are too many women out there who enjoy the fruits of women’s liberation yet shun the “F” word. I call myself that to show a stance, even if I don’t subscribe to everything that liberal feminists support. Women are people too – with wishes, passions, faults, they should have the right not to be perfect or “proper”.
I come from a place where we had no fault divorces even before the WW2, while America only got it in 1970. I was born into a gender egalitarian society that wasn’t as sexualized as America. So I don’t need anybody’s justification of whether I’m feminist or not. Nor am I afraid of being stereotyped for that. I have always had all the freedom I want and I don’t feel threatened by the MRAs. If it ever came to it that somebody seriously tried to take women’s freedom, such as certain religious groups, I would certainly fight against them. But right now, nothing is threatening us.
One thing I told Todd was that women and men should have a choice to pursue whichever life model they want to the extent that it is possible. For instance, if a woman wants to have a traditional marriage and be a housewife, she should not be looked down upon or nudged and expected to try to achieve more and be considered half a human for relying financially on her husband (the husband is certainly relying on her reproductively, right?). On the other hand, if a woman wants to pursue a high status profession during her reproductive and strongest years, she should also receive some help in case she becomes a mother on the way – either from her husband or society at large (because everyone benefits from a woman who both works and has a baby). As I told Bill, some feminists will gladly give men a 50/50 custody of small children, but how many men will take it? The most important is to give people a choice. Today in the West, women no longer have choices in that regard – they have to do everything and the expectation is now to be some sort of a “superwoman” who does everything and this is wrong. No, work has to be shared. And Bill has told me in private how hard it can be to raise small children. He knows first hand as he at one point took care of two toddlers ALONE. Most of the other MRA guys have not done that. PUAs have not spent a single day caring for a baby or an elderly person, yet they whine and complain about women.
Just a few years ago I myself would never have imagined being together with a man like Bill (and he probably thought the same), but life can be full of surprises. Yes, normally the anti-women views would have been a deal breaker (same as my “feminism” would have been for him) and there are still times when I feel a bit guilty, but love is love. As Russians say – Love can play evil tricks – it may just happen that you fall in love with an ass! (And this goes both ways for men and women, as some men do find crazy manipulative bimbos irrestistable and will follow them to their ruin). And in the midst of our arguments, we discovered that we share other interests that are not related to gender. We’ve had a lot of disagreements / arguments with Bill, he’s a very deep, complex person, but in the end we just decided to let each have our own opinions. We do agree on other issues, though, such as that there can be negative aspects to globalization or that the class differences are getting too pronounced. We share our love for beautiful nature. Bill is also a walking encyclopedia. He makes weird off the wall jokes and it’s never boring.
Yes, I wouldn’t call Bill moderate, he is just more refined than the Elam people. In Europe a site like The Spearhead would have been taken down by the authorities, but here in America it is allowed. You on the other hand have the right to criticize it and that’s fine. Yes, some of the stuff he writes makes me angry and simply baffles me as to where the hell something like that can come from, but I have learned to accept that this is a personal opinion which will not affect mine or any other woman’s or girl’s status or civil rights. It might ruin our mood, but that’s about it. Some of it comes from a feeling of helpnessness in the face of the “system” or the powers that be. Also, I don’t agree with Bill with his definition of feminism – it seems that MRAs ascribe all the evils in America to feminism, while a lot of these social difficulties arise from certain economic factors, consumerism, individual lifestyle choices.
There are, however, a couple of MRA points that Bill and I agree on – mainly that kids should not be taken away from non-criminal and healthy dads. If a dad can’t pay childsupport, let him do the actual work of child rearing. Bill was screwed in his divorce in a major way that wouldn’t have been possible in Europe where lawyers don’t have as much power and where in many cases there is automatic dual custody. A guy wanting to take care of his kids is a good sign. As a second wife, this is not always easy for me, but I respect Bill for fighting to see his kids and not abandoning them – it shows character. Divorce is so common that it should be made much easier – much quicker and less expensive so as not to leave people’s lives completely shattered. This would benefit most women and men. I’m very much a Warren Farrel type of a person when it comes to family / marriage issues.
When I read some PUA stuff and guys complaining about modern women, I sometimes laugh because 1) nothing’s gonna change in the West; 3) the PUAs made their own bed by embracing the hook up culture and taking advantage of women on campus; and 3) they sure do love it when they no longer have to be traditional. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Go ahead and be critical of me for being with him, I accept criticism from feminists, but, as I said, I have the right to call myself that (at this point, no one group has the monopoly over this term) and there is much more to this person than just The Spearhead.
Athywren – the endless kittyvids are part of their plan. How can anyone resist when they have been assimilated by the Furg?
baileyrenee – yeah, count me in on education not being an issue the way these guys frame it. Boys expected to sit down and listen in class? Boo fucking hoo, the whole classroom setup goes back to when education was run by men, for men, and they made damn sure women were excluded. A cruel feminist plot to stop boys getting high grades while running around and doing jack shit it ain’t.
Cassandra – which troll was from Scotland? Only UK-located one I can remember was First Joe; was it him?
Btw, we both love watching the funny cat videos together. 🙂
Speaking of puppies, does anyone need to be swarmed by corgi puppies?
Compassion for male rape survivors, right there.
cloudiah – everyone needs to be swarmed by corgi puppies.
athywren – what happens when one is assimilated by the Furg
People might want to scroll back a page to see a comment from Price’s wife.
I’m imagining Charlton Heston running around yelling “Cottonelle is puppies!”
Cottonelle Green!
I know you guys have totally moved on, but I just want to draw attention to this:
Clearly he hasn’t met our friend Alex L, inspiration for the flower-shop comic…who now has his own website! If you’re missing Artistry Against Misandry, you can go admire his lovingly assembled all-HTML Web 1.0 design and his background images proudly displaying the white jaggies.
Good gods, he thinks that’s a strawman? When they treat “going on a date” as prostitution, and complain that women don’t automatically have sex with them after they’ve paid for dinner/coffee/a parking place?
Riiiight.
@cloudiah
Lip gloss is very personal. I love CO bigelow’s mint lipglosses, but a lot of folks don’t.
Anyway, thats my suggestion.
Hello, Bill’s wife. I’m going to assume for the moment that you are who you say you are, and given the length of your comment it seems likely, but we here at manboobz can’t really take that for granted since we occasionally get people commenting here who get their kicks from deceiving people about their identities.
In any case, when I read your comment the following really popped out at me:
Why do you think this? It strikes me, quite frankly, as delusional. Take a moment, if you would, to look at this article and read the comments in response to it.
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/10/14/why-you-might-want-to-think-twice-about-sending-your-daughter-to-college/
Do you really think that the sentiments your husband expresses and the misogynistic community he fosters will have no effect on any woman’s or girl’s status or civil rights?
Do you really think that none of the men who read, participate in, and identify with the ideas expressed at WF Price’s site will go on to abuse a woman or deny his daughter life opportunities because he’s been steeped in such a hateful, reactionary stew?
What if just one father decides to withhold educational opportunities from his daughter because of The Spearhead? How would you feel then?
I don’t particularly care to criticize you. Your comment suggests, as I expected, that you put up a mental wall between the WF Price you experience and the WF Price who acts and has an effect on the world at large. Yes, lots of people do it. It’s not something I can understand very well, though, as someone who is merely bigoted—much less someone who actively seeks to affect the world for the worse—will very quickly start looking very ugly to me, no matter how good looking or funny they are.
Sorry, cloudiah, I can’t help. I wear matte lippy or use lip balm.
I’m a traditional Burt’s Bees person myself.
I quite like this one.
http://www.sephora.com/minted-rose-lip-balm-P164932?SKUID=956359&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=956359&om_mmc=Google{adtype}&_requestid=42976&cm_mmc=us_search-_-GG-_-{adtype}-_-{keyword}
Link borked.
http://www.beauty.com/rosebud-perfume-co-smiths-rosebud-salve/qxp191446?catid=298377
It’s amazing that this article was so even-handed, brought the issues underlying the ostensible reasons for the MRMs existence to the forefront, and completely legitimized the Men’s Rights Movement–
and they’re over there calling it a “hit piece” and, well, doing what MRAs do, which is show everyone how repugnant they are.
I mean, if this is how they take a mixed review that has a lot of positive points in their favor, I’m not so sure they’re in a fair fight, because obviously they have self-destructive tendencies. Maybe egalitarians need to take the reins from the MRAs before conditions for men actually DO become disparate. I’m sort of scared for my future, as a dood, BECAUSE of the MRM.
I’m old enough to remember gender-separate help wanted columns, with different jobs listed for men vs. women. I’m old enough to remember when it really was considered extraneous to send women to college, unless they came out of it with a better quality MRS degree than they would have otherwise. I can remember when women who brought the checkbook and went shopping for a major appliance alone would be told to come back and bring their husband. And when a married woman went into the hospital for a mastectomy, they would present her husband with the consent form. I can remember open ridicule and serious counseling for women who were “too intellectual.” I can remember when the average person was expected to believe in Freud’s theory of “penis envy.” I can remember being shooed away from math and science books in the library. I can remember job applications where women were expected to fill out forms with details about their menstrual cycle. I can remember when they showed us the film about “becoming women” and some boys later found out about it and ridiculed us. My grandmother remembered having to wash out her re-useable cloths and boys ridiculing her. When my grandmother was born, women still couldn’t vote. And when grandma and grandpa tried to sell their house and retire to California, the first buyers were a couple where the woman was a school teacher. But the mortgage company wouldn’t approve them, because the wife was still of childbearing age, and the bank was worried that she would get pregnant and thereby reduce the family’s income.
You better believe I take the MRA movement seriously.
I am so far behind but…
“I am glad that you had people around you who helped you through difficult times. Which makes it difficult to understand why people are hostile to the idea of helping men in general through difficult times.”
…who said I was a woman?