The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of people.
Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.
It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.
Here’s what it gets right:
1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.
2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.
As Kelly notes:
Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …
Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.
Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:
According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.
It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.
In other words: Cool story, bro.
3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,
the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.
“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”
Indeed, Kelly writes:
It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.
But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.
1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.
2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.
3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?
I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.
4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!
Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!
Hostility, care to address the survey’s actual points instead of diverting to a pointless clarification?
I can’t be bothered with Mr. Hostility, but I’ve kept coming back here to see if the new Pierre was done. Yonkers! It’s a good one.
katz, love it! Especially Pierre’s expression at the end. 😀
I really enjoyed drawing the expressions in the second to last panel.
I liked Pierre’s addition to his shopping list. 😀
So, hostilehissyfit is gradually working around to “if he hasn’t been convicted, he’s not a rapist”, eh? That’s what the stuff Athywren quoted looks like to me. Didn’t think it’d be too long before rape-culture apologist showed his colours as an out and out rape apologist – and the next question from there for me is just why he, and all the shitheads who take that stance, are so eager to downplay rape’s prevalence.
(That was a rhetorical question, btw.)
Err, I mean I knew the Argenti part from knowing a bit about heraldic terminology, but also I think you were probably talking to someone else? Because I know fuck-all about Latin when you get down to it. Trying to learn Italian, yes, but Latin’s not really a thing for me…
wow dudeface is still doing his thing?
Love the new Pierre, Katz! ‘Tis a thing of beauty!
Yep, that should’ve been directed at Alice, your comment is the one under hers (? Alice, what pronouns do you use?)
katz: Yay! I heart Pierre. I feel kinda sorry for him, though, he seems to run into a lot of assholes.
The ongoing conversation:
So, Lisak & Miller found that 6.4% of male respondents endorsed items that met the legal definition of rape; and of those that admitted to raping, 63.3% had commits more than one rape. So, my question, if there is no rape culture, if rape is so abhorrent to modern society, why weren’t these men in jail? Why weren’t these rapes reported to the police? Why were 76 out of 120 of these men allowed to go on to commit more than one rape?
Because the world isn’t all tea scones and clotted cream. It takes a criminal justice system more than just a second to catch up with its enemies.
“Oh no! Our bus!”
I lol’d… I am a terrible person.
Well… I think it was about whether or not they understand what rape and consent are. Mind you, assuming innocence in that case doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, since being unaware of what rape and consent are isn’t actually a crime. My thinking was that it seems a little odd to make the perfectly valid statement that we can’t draw conclusions that aren’t supported by evidence, then go on to draw conclusions that aren’t supported by evidence.
Oh hostile one, please load the PDF of the study (it’s on the previous page) and skip to the middle of page six where it says that those 120 men, among them, had committed 483 rapes and 1,225 other acts of interpersonal violence.
You really want to argue that they were all, nearly 2,000 of them, committed in such a short timeframe that not one arrest was made?
Or are you continuing to harp on about a study you haven’t read despite me giving you a damned link to it?
Athywren — I think the hostile one thought I was saying that because we can assume any rapist who recognized the questions as being about rape would lie, all the rest of the men were rapists. You’ll find some math worthy of Owly on the previous page.
Also, beat it as Salubri, started a Baali earlier. The irony is not lost on me.
Motherfucker! You had to say that right after I made my comic!
Because the world isn’t all tea scones and clotted cream.
Because the world isn’t all burrata cheese and heirloom tomatoes.
Because the world isn’t all prosciutto and melon.
Because the world isn’t all caramels and salt.
Because the world isn’t all roasted potatoes and rosemary.
Because the world isn’t all lime juice and avocados.
Because the world isn’t all mashed potatoes and vegan gravy.
Because the world isn’t all cookies and milk.
And now I’m hungry.
And surely it’s impossible for fucked up societal norms to delay or interfere with that process of catching up with criminals. Nope. Not at all. Law enforcement exists in a cultural vacuum.
Congratulations on the comic, even if it was unduly flattering.
The only place I could insert it is the “burning down homes” panel, which already doesn’t have any room. I could put it instead of the Disneyland line, but then I’d lose that bit. Maybe I could add it as off-panel dialog in the shopping list panel?
And pecunium should be pecunia
Actually I meand it to be peculium but I misremembered the word, and so it is as it is.
Hostilty to Reason: A considerable amount of effort has now been invested in attempts at addressing my point that this translates into just over 2 percent of the overall population. It stands to reason that some people will be deranged enough to not see their own crime for what they are, especially when one takes into account the prevalence of sociopathy in western society (3 to 30 percent).
Is there a drug culture? Far fewer than 2 percent of the populace sell drugs.
Yet drugs are pervasive.
the other 19 men are innocent in my books. Innocent until proven guilty.
Whut? This is more of the logic you fail to do. They are legally free of consequence until someone makes an allegation, a cop believes it, a prosecutor follows up on it, and a jury is convinced.
Says fuck all about their being rapists or not.
Exactly. Which means you think you shouldn’t to that, but you do.
And 6.4% of the men surveyed said yes to at least one of these questions. But, because it was a single survey of one population group, there is no margin of error. So the number in question is exactly 6.4%.
Wnat it means is 6.4 percent of the respondents either didn’t know what rape is, or don’t care. It doesn’t tell us how many of the remainder saw that and said, “shitl that’s rape, I’m not copping to that”
So there is one conclusion to be drawn, at least 6.4 percent of men are willing to admit to things which are rape.
A reasonable person (as you are not) would also infer that some portion of those men knew it was rape, and denied it. So, again, a reasonable person would assume the number is, in fact, greater than 6.4 percent.
Me, from what I know of men, I’d guess the number is about ten percent.
Logic, do you speak it?
ostara: For all his chest pounding over his supposed having a superior STEM degree
And specialised expertise in military theory/practice.
Look, an actual ad hominem: in the wild:
A non-refutation based on an allegation of malfeasance.
Pure Ad Hom.
“The world isn’t all scones or clotted cream, so don’t add those”?
Peculium, that was he other option I was forgetting! Whatever, mine’s a straight up typo, I can’t talk.