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The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

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Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

pecunium — yeah, that’s fine. I’m at the shop and made it to VtM end game, so I’m okay at present. Thanks.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

Well, to be fair, it’s 1:30 am here in Englishland, so that puts Germania in at 2:30, so that is pretty late.

Huh… buh… But I was agreeing with zir… I mean, that was the only part I didn’t object to… Whuh?

Seems I fail even at being completely non-sarcastic. Now I’m really going to bed.

Yeah, pretty sure this was my fail… I mean, it was 1:30am! I was tired and full of derp.

It’s specifically the comment about how he’s been observing us (commenters) for years, followed by a list of grievances, that suggests to me that this is not his first time on this particular ride.

Nah, I’d guess it’s probably just a cheap and ultimately useless attempt at scaring us.
“They’re watching us! They’re watching us!! AAAAAAAAAHHH!!!”
Heh.

Speaking of “Oh man,” I’m going OT from the booze discussion that I just expressed my enthusiasm for, but… does anyone have any alternatives to that interjection? I’m trying to cut weirdly-gendered phrases from my go-to vocabulary as a personal project (largely just to see if I can), but I don’t really have a good substitute for that one.

“Zwounds!” or “KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN (Khaaaaaan)”

For the record, I don’t think many of them are actually trolls in the sense that they’re playing a character in order to annoy people. I’m perfectly willing to believe that they believe what they say, and that they’re actually trying to convince us that we’re wrong. It’s just that they have no idea how to use logic or a skeptical approach to reality. The fact that so many of them feel the need to mention that they’re atheists (and then assume that we’re all religious) is quite telling of this, because it’s utterly irrelevant. I could understand mentioning that they’re skeptics, because a good skeptic will check the evidence before taking a view, but atheism is just a single conclusion which can be reached with or without skepticism.
So, yeah, not trolls, just irrational with a high opinion of their own intelligence and no understanding of how to communicate… much like fundamentalists. 😛

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Cassandra: Corralejo makes a very good anejo tequila. One plus in the TX column is they do have quite the selection if tequila is your thing.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Dustydeste — My full nym is, in proper Latin, Argenti Aetheri — I typoed the r and liked it so I left it. Silver aether // mist — closest I could get to silver lining without it getting weird. And pecunium should be pecunia, it’s a feminine noun, so really, we both have nearly Latin nyms.

But another Latin fan!

Kitteh — guilty confession, I used to catch and release. I was a kid, and it was about the only tolerable thing to do with my father, but I feel so bad for those fishies now.

Radical Parrot
11 years ago

@Athywren: No harm, no foul. I have a history of writing ambiguous posts that people take the exact opposite way of how I meant them to be taken. So, the common factor in all these situations has, in fact, been me, and my drunk brian nto ytping porperly.

Also, I make stupid mistakes with my English. A dumb typo while attempting to type “zombie plague” once inspired me to write a short, educational story about people turning into zombies for not taking care of their teeth properly.

baileyrenee
11 years ago

I Extrapolate: Grind-core

Perpetrator’s Perception: Death metal

Be Specific: Minimalist nerd-core

The World is Not Disneyland: Indie-pop

36 Years Old, Grey Hair, Wheelchair-Bound, on the Larger Side: The new album from “The World is Not Disneyland”

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Re 5 percent of men do not consider their rapes to be rape equals rape culture

A considerable amount of effort has now been invested in attempts at addressing my point that this translates into just over 2 percent of the overall population. It stands to reason that some people will be deranged enough to not see their own crime for what they are, especially when one takes into account the prevalence of sociopathy in western society (3 to 30 percent).

The mental gymnastics undertaken to inflate a figure of just over 2 percent in order to make the assertion, that there is a ‘rape culture’, more plausible were accompanied by some of the most disappointingly graceless spasms I have ever seen in a discussion like this.

For instance, there was this ‘argument’ that, if 1 in 20 of all the men is clueless about the criminality of his crime, then there will likely be a sizable amount of non-rapists who also do not know that rape is rape. Ell oh ell to that. This is just another example of an attempt at smuggling higher numbers into a stat that does not in and of itself look impressive enough to fulfil its ideological/propagandistic purpose. This, I believe, is what is meant by ‘cooking the books’ in the English language.

Then, other commenters served up another harangue of alarmism and non-sequiturs, in which they made vague anecdotal references to journalists speaking of ‘ “rape” rape ‘ and the various journalistic buffooneries surrounding the Steubenville rape, in which commentators lamented that the rapists would not be able to pursue a sports career anymore, etc…

And? 1 in 20 men don’t know they are rapists plus most journalists are idiots equals rape culture?

Ok…, if you say so…

baileyrenee
11 years ago

Prevalence of Sociopathy: Thrash

Disappointingly Graceless Spasms: Goth

Propagandistic Purpose: R.A.C.

Harangue of Alarmism: Crust punk

Various Journalistic Buffooneries: A Jello Biafra side project

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Shut up, ahostileworld. Go fuck back off to wherever you came from.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

A considerable amount of effort has now been invested in attempts at addressing my point

?
What do you think effort means?

For instance, there was this ‘argument’ that, if 1 in 20 of all the men is clueless about the criminality of his crime, then there will likely be a sizable amount of non-rapists who also do not know that rape is rape. Ell oh ell to that.

See, surely no troll would make such a stupid misrepresentation? Considering that your argument was that if 1 in 20 of all men was “clueless” then the other 19 were fully aware, it seems like the skeptical approach is to point out that data on 1 in 20 refers to that 1 in 20, and tells us little about the other 19. What it tells us that the other 19 didn’t admit to committing rape when the word rape was left out, not that every single one of them was aware.
Please, learn how logic works.

Ally S
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

-10/10 please never argue again

ahostileworld
11 years ago

You appear to be unfamiliar with the survey.

Radical Parrot
11 years ago

And? 1 in 20 men don’t know they are rapists plus most journalists are idiots equals rape culture?

FFS… Are you truly this obtuse or are you just really, really good at pretending to be?

Other, smarter, less drunk people will most likely be here in a moment to tear your pointless drivel into shreds, but first, just for fun, let’s turn things the other way: If the Steubenville rape had been an isolated incident, if the rapists were universally reviled for their deed, if the rest of the world would gasp in horror at this mockery of justice, if the victim had been offered support instead of being blamed for being the victim of a horrible crime, and so forth… Then no, there would indeed be no such thing as rape culture. Alas, this is not the case. All these things and more happening when the crime is rape instead of any other crime makes a pretty good case for the argument for the existence rape culture. Why is this so hard to understand?

Also, again with the sociopathy. As in bad things in society being done exclusively by inherently bad people, isolated cases (instead of largely privileged assholes with entitlement issues)? The mantra of all right-wing crackpots out there? Good grief.

Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

‘A mockery of justice’?

The two rapists are serving time in juvenile detention and have been added to the sex offenders register. This is exactly what should happen to all rapists (the young ones anyway, the old ones belong in prison)

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Oh that’s just precious, it thinks we don’t know the survey. You know, the one where, when asked if they’d “had sex” under conditions that were legally rape one in 20 men said yes. Says fuck all about the remaining 19 men’s understanding of whether or not that was rape, just that they either honestly were not rapists (likely for most of them) or did not answer honestly (this is called “margin of error” and if anyone could be so kind as to link to the survey, I will do a more mathematically sound smack down)

Not being a rapist =/= knowing what rape is in a legal sense. Just means you haven’t committed rape.

Aren’t you supposedly a math whiz kid?

ostara321
ostara321
11 years ago

@ Marie, I extrapolate from this that those five percent did not realise that what they did was rape. This is because sexual acts and killing someone are fundamentally different in nature. When somebody is dead, there is no question about ghem being dead. When somebody has been raped, the victim is still alive (hopefully) and the perpetrator’s perception of his action will be his alone.

You just described rape culture, dipshit. People not even knowing what rape is is kind of a problem with our culture don’t you think?

And quite frankly, that’s an extremely charitable interpretation (to the point of magical Disneyland thinking). There’s a lot of evidence to support the theory that most of those men damn well KNOW that what they are doing is wrong or at the very least, not cool, even if they are unwilling to call it rape. I believe this would satisfy your #2 requirement for “proof” of a rape culture, no?

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Argenti Aertheri, one should only draw the conclusions that the source material definitively point to. Everything else is conjecture. Unless and until the numbers prove otherwise, the other 19 men are innocent in my books. Innocent until proven guilty. No waffling on about ‘margins of error’ will change that. The rule of law and justice for everyone all the way!

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

The margin of error is moot to whether the other 19 understand that the question was asking about rape.

baileyrenee
11 years ago

Jesus mother-fucking shit. I can’t even make band names out of that garbage. How can a human being this stupid know how to use a computer?

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Also, they are all innocent until proven guilty. THat’s a legal concept, socially we can judge them all we like. And the margin of error is a statistical concept and thus entirely relevant to how many men, according to the study and the statistics it used, are rapists.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Easy. I’m using a tablet.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“No waffling on” — something acoustic?

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

So was I for all comments before the ones today. That has no bearing on your logical failures.

baileyrenee
11 years ago

Aww, look, he did that thing where he doesn’t respond hard questions and comments! He’s like a little Thunderf00t!

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Socially, we suspect 6, 7, 8, 20 out of 20 men of being rapists.

Yeah.

Well, this is why the ‘rape culture’ cannard is nothing but a very badly thought-through fearmongering campaign. No wonder nobody outside the small cosmos of internet comment sections drinks the kool aid.

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