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a voice for men are these guys 12 years old? johntheother lying liars misogyny MRA

The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

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Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

And it’s not like you have any or anything pecunium! XD

…ooh, please use it on him? Pretty pretty please? You can have a spiderling wherever my spider plant grows up and does that.

pecunium
11 years ago

SittieKitty: Blockquotes are your friend. Put it in a doc,and cut/paste to avoid being bitten by the monster.

katz
11 years ago

ahostileworld has yet to answer me. (I hope this is not against the rules, if it is I’ll totally knock it off, or if it’s annoying anyone too, lemme know, it just seems like ahostileworld is completely incapable of reading back even a page to look at things asked so copying seems like a solution.)

If that’s against the rules, I’m in all kinds of trouble.

pecunium
11 years ago

Mcgee: Not 5% of rapists, you fool. 5% of MEN.

You know that makes it worse, right.

So, who gets to determine consent?

Brooked
Brooked
11 years ago

Fail to Impress: pop punk

Wheelchair Bound: industrial metal

On the Larger Side: country rock

You’d Better Be, Sweetheart: jazz/pop standards

pecunium
11 years ago

So still not demonstrating that oh so superior maths ability are you, laddie?

I never claimed to have any skill with mathematics. You are the dipshit posturing as a Sooper-Geenius.

I’m just applying the rules of logic to your claims, and comparing your results to my experience (it’s not looking good for you; I suspect your professors were being lenient in the grading; or there was a curve and you were in classes with even stupider people).

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“Yes, I do think everone who is not a rapist understands what rape is. This is the reason I do not fuck everything and everyone I see.”

Wait a fucking minute. So if he didn’t know that was rape and thus illegal, he’d do it and thus commit rape through ignorance just like he’s saying those 5% of men do?

Well, that’s disgusting and quite informative.

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

Well, @ahostilenoodle is right about one thing. It’s late on this side of the Atlantic. Sweet dreams, everyone.

http://instagram.com/p/fyfT_ol-7w/

pecunium
11 years ago

(I do find it amusing that someone who was in nappies when I was already in middle school is calling me laddie. Must be my youthful good looks).

SittieKitty
11 years ago

pecunium, I have yet to be bitten by the blockquote monster, I’m not sure if that makes me good or bad at manboobzing…

Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright

I could break it down…

Fooling yourself into thinking you didn’t rape someone = believing that the actions you took were not rape = you thinking that what you “gathered” was consent or, alternatively, thinking that consent was automatic and no one took it away. This is “alright” because you a) are ignorant of what consent means, b) are ok with the actions you took that were in fact rape, c) are not only okay with it, but you’ve managed to justify it to yourself. How is this possible if consent is so clearly defined, everyone knows what it is, and rape isn’t culturally acceptable?

Please, please tell me how you manage to say both:

a) a fuckload of people (5% of men) can be ok with their actions of raping someone enough that they don’t even know they’ve committed rape

and,

b) that there is a culture in society today that denounces rape so hard and so strongly that these people couldn’t possibly believe what they were doing is right.

Saying there is no rape culture is de facto saying, in your own words, that rape is so heinous and well defined that there should never be a misunderstanding and it’s so roundly denounced that no one should ever be okay with their actions being rape.

Which is incongruous with saying that a large percentage of the male population is actually able to “fool” themselves into thinking what they did was straight up totes okay.

It’s kinda one or the other here, you can’t have both. If you’re trying to say you can have both, you need to go the extra step and explain why they make sense, because from where I’m sitting (I have one of those gender studies degrees you were whinging about earlier, and I also have a med degree which is imo pretty STEM so yea, pretty well rounded education) those two things are completely at odds.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

One thing that’s worth noting – that 5% of men will admit to having committed rape when the word rape is not included in the question does not mean that the other 95% of men understand what rape and consent are. Nor does it mean that only 5% are rapists – it could well mean that the other 95% know exactly what rape and consent are, and so answer in the negative despite having done so. This is, of course… I hope, not true, but the 5% figure tells us about the 5% only.

Ally S
11 years ago

5% of men…are we talking about the Lisak study again? Because, um, while very few of the rapists interviewed acknowledged that they committed rape, every single one of them knew that the victim did not consent.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Pecunium, that was titianblue, to asshole. Your math skills were never in question.

And you were right, I’ve been missing that second i all this time, I’m sorry titianblue!

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

@pecunium, it was me saying

Not 5% of rapists, you fool. 5% of MEN.

and

So still not demonstrating that oh so superior maths ability are you, laddie?

And I was aiming both comments at @ahostilenoodle.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Though I will say you have youthful good looks 🙂

SittieKitty — you asked for that.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Oh fuck me. You meant to do that. Sorry!

SittieKitty
11 years ago

hehehe. I did, so that people could skip over it. it’s all good. i’m totally tempting fate by saying that the blockquote monster hasn’t gotten me yet and i’m sure I’ll eventually have to bite my foot.

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

No probs about the missing “i”, Argenti.

I’m taking @pecunium’s mistaking my comment for @hostiletroll’s as further evidence that our troll is most likely British.

pecunium
11 years ago

Oh… Sorry. (there go my youthful good looks).

SittieKitty
11 years ago

eat my hat? hmm… I missed out on the euphemisms thread and my mind is full of puns so now i’m going in random pun wordplay euphemism circles.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Hey, my mother calls you kid sometimes. I can’t get her to understand you’re about the same age as her oldest nephew (the military one)

pecunium
11 years ago

titianblue: I’ve yet to see a non-native locutional phrase, nor any failure to understand complex syntactical structures; (of the sort native speakers know, but rarely use, and which non-native are told about, but never really get to see in the wild).

Added to his solid grasp of colloquialisms, idiom and cultural referent… well location isn’t nationality.

Radical Parrot
11 years ago

@auggziliary: Thanks for the help!

Indeed, I find it difficult to translate any of believesinahostileworldandisthereforecompletelymiserable’s lines without once resorting to my classic go-to translation “I have no idea what I’m arguing here, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to admit it”.

Oh, except the part about it being, like, super late here in Europe. Why am I still awake? SIlly me.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

Oh, except the part about it being, like, super late here in Europe. Why am I still awake? SIlly me.

Well, to be fair, it’s 1:30 am here in Englishland, so that puts Germania in at 2:30, so that is pretty late.
I should be going to sleep myself… but I’m watching Agents of SHIELD first.

katz
11 years ago

Athywren: I like your sense of priority.

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