Categories
a voice for men are these guys 12 years old? johntheother lying liars misogyny MRA

The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

1.9K Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Marie
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

I am not trying to prove anything. So now you are saying that 5 percent of men not knowing they are rapists is indicative of a ‘rape culture’. That leaves around 98 percent of humanity with a clear view of what is rape. So in other words, *we* live in a ‘rape culture’ that is determined defined by just over 2 percent of humanity? What influence do the other 98 percent have on humanity?

Okay. How on earth can you convince yourself 5% of men raping people is insignificant? I mean, I can’t even sentence right now. It’s like…bwuh?

Also, if 5% of men did it and didn’t know what it is, there are probably lots of other men (and women) who have a similiar idea, but just haven’t done it. FFS

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

Oh, @Argenti, I’m sorry. 🙁

katz
11 years ago

The world is not Dollywood.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Which definition? I got so many. Everyone of you had a different one. Like I said. It is what you want it to be.

Yes, I do think everone who is not a rapist understands what rape is. This is the reason I do not fuck everything and everyone I see.

pecunium
11 years ago

McGee: I am not trying to prove anything.

You’d better be, sweetheart, otherwise we will continue to remain unconvinced in the lack of Rape Culture. Now, if you would rather not try to prove there is no rape culture, and concede defeat, we will understand.

We’ll even be magnanimous enough not to tell all your pals you couldn’t win an argument with a bunch of stupid feminists who didn’t get to Uni until our youth was mostly spent.

pecunium
11 years ago

Yes, I do think everone who is not a rapist understands what rape is.

So what is rape?

SittieKitty
11 years ago

I’m not sure how this advances the discussion, but I’m happy to have made a contribution at least as valuable and interesting as anything Mr. Hostility has written.

[TW:Rape]

Well… I could think of a way that Disneyland is applicable to this conversation, because I remember a fucked up story about a women who worked at Disneyland who was raped by a coworker and the park did fuck all about it except tell her she either imagined it or misunderstood or something and that an investigation was going on when it really wasn’t. Can’t remember where I read it, but it made me sad as hell 🙁

Marie
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

Which definition? I got so many. Everyone of you had a different one. Like I said. It is what you want it to be.

Where have people been contradictory? Provide examples.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

‘You’d better be, sweetheart, otherwise we will continue to remain unconvinced in the lack of Rape Culture.’

Burden of proof, my treasure, burden of proof!

SittieKitty
11 years ago

ahostileworld, (in case you missed it, this was directed at you)

Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright

I could break it down…

Fooling yourself into thinking you didn’t rape someone = believing that the actions you took were not rape = you thinking that what you “gathered” was consent or, alternatively, thinking that consent was automatic and no one took it away. This is “alright” because you a) are ignorant of what consent means, b) are ok with the actions you took that were in fact rape, c) are not only okay with it, but you’ve managed to justify it to yourself. How is this possible if consent is so clearly defined, everyone knows what it is, and rape isn’t culturally acceptable?

Please, please tell me how you manage to say both:

a) a fuckload of people (5% of men) can be ok with their actions of raping someone enough that they don’t even know they’ve committed rape

and,

b) that there is a culture in society today that denounces rape so hard and so strongly that these people couldn’t possibly believe what they were doing is right.

Saying there is no rape culture is de facto saying, in your own words, that rape is so heinous and well defined that there should never be a misunderstanding and it’s so roundly denounced that no one should ever be okay with their actions being rape.

Which is incongruous with saying that a large percentage of the male population is actually able to “fool” themselves into thinking what they did was straight up totes okay.

It’s kinda one or the other here, you can’t have both. If you’re trying to say you can have both, you need to go the extra step and explain why they make sense, because from where I’m sitting (I have one of those gender studies degrees you were whinging about earlier, and I also have a med degree which is imo pretty STEM so yea, pretty well rounded education) those two things are completely at odds.

Marie
11 years ago

I’ve got to run out for hay for my piggies, but I will be right back. Keep the troll warm for me! :3

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Any sexual intercourse without consent.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

The world
is not
a great, big
onioooooon
… I don’t know how the rest of that song goes…

Brooked
Brooked
11 years ago

Another band like A-Ha that sings in English but don’t actually know English that well, so their lyrics have that adorable Google-translate feel to them. “Take On Me?”

I associate European prog rock with terrible band names because in the early 70s there was a German prog rock band called Birth Control. IMHO, Birth Control is the worst band name ever and English as a second language is the only reasonable excuse for it.

Most Scandinavian bands lyrics aren’t that bad, but they all (from Abba to Peter Bjorn and John) sing with that slight adorable accent. I should have said German prog rock, if only to honor ahostleworld. Sorry Scandinavia!

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Alright, late here in Europe. Maybe later then.

Brooked
Brooked
11 years ago

That was @Katz. Jesus, this thread is flying!

pecunium
11 years ago

Burden of proof, my treasure, burden of proof!

Yes, and you has it: (or was the last time I linked to an explanation too long for your studly student brain?

You are trying to convince us.

That means you have to you know, convince. If you won’t, then you lose. That’s Debate 101 (which in many institutes of higher learning is called Logic, just to put a bit of topicality to the discussion).

So, tell me, was it your military career which led to you being in wheelchair?

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

…that doesn’t even make sense…

Ophelia — meh, it was years ago and this is gaslighting narcissist ex, so that’s actually just the tip of the shit sundae.

Pecunium — oh my dearest mango hater, if only we all understood what rape is. Would make my life so much easier in oh so many ways!

pecunium
11 years ago

Any sexual intercourse without consent.

So… who gets to decide when there is consent?

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“…that doesn’t” etc

Was about this — “Burden of proof, my treasure, burden of proof!”

SittieKitty
11 years ago

ahostileworld has yet to answer me. (I hope this is not against the rules, if it is I’ll totally knock it off, or if it’s annoying anyone too, lemme know, it just seems like ahostileworld is completely incapable of reading back even a page to look at things asked so copying seems like a solution.)

Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright

I could break it down…

Fooling yourself into thinking you didn’t rape someone = believing that the actions you took were not rape = you thinking that what you “gathered” was consent or, alternatively, thinking that consent was automatic and no one took it away. This is “alright” because you a) are ignorant of what consent means, b) are ok with the actions you took that were in fact rape, c) are not only okay with it, but you’ve managed to justify it to yourself. How is this possible if consent is so clearly defined, everyone knows what it is, and rape isn’t culturally acceptable?

Please, please tell me how you manage to say both:

a) a fuckload of people (5% of men) can be ok with their actions of raping someone enough that they don’t even know they’ve committed rape

and,

b) that there is a culture in society today that denounces rape so hard and so strongly that these people couldn’t possibly believe what they were doing is right.

Saying there is no rape culture is de facto saying, in your own words, that rape is so heinous and well defined that there should never be a misunderstanding and it’s so roundly denounced that no one should ever be okay with their actions being rape.

Which is incongruous with saying that a large percentage of the male population is actually able to “fool” themselves into thinking what they did was straight up totes okay.

It’s kinda one or the other here, you can’t have both. If you’re trying to say you can have both, you need to go the extra step and explain why they make sense, because from where I’m sitting (I have one of those gender studies degrees you were whinging about earlier, and I also have a med degree which is imo pretty STEM so yea, pretty well rounded education) those two things are completely at odds.

(no, seriously, if it’s annoying please tell me 🙂 )

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Sex without consent…so, what if she says yes when coerced? Or when too drunk to actually say anything but slurs something that sounds like yes?

Or, how about if she consents in the first place and then tells him to stop?

(Pecunium, please stock up on Jedi hugs, I fear his reply will make me need them)

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

SittieKitty — it confused me the first time you did it, but I wouldn’t call it annoying. Maybe preface it with how it’s that comment again so the rest of us just skip it?

pecunium
11 years ago

SittieKitty: Not to me. I still want to know about his military experience (so needful to evaluate the actions of past generals, per Asshole Mcgee).

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

5 percent of rapists being dull/delusional/badly informed

Not 5% of rapists, you fool. 5% of MEN.

So still not demonstrating that oh so superior maths ability are you, laddie?

1 48 49 50 51 52 75