The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of people.
Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.
It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.
Here’s what it gets right:
1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.
2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.
As Kelly notes:
Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …
Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.
Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:
According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.
It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.
In other words: Cool story, bro.
3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,
the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.
“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”
Indeed, Kelly writes:
It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.
But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.
1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.
2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.
3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?
I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.
4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!
Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!
‘Which is rape culture’ – so in other words, ‘rape culture’ is whatever you want it to be.
Asshole: Athywren, what you just quoted from me can in no world of reason be paraphrased as ‘rape culture exists’.
Au contraire, mon ami
As evidenced by Athywren (a person amply shown to be possessed of reason) so construing it.
But I understand, having one’s petard be thing on which one is hoist is unpleasant.
This is my fave band name, tip of the hat to Katz.
We’ve already defined rape culture. Since we can go back thread I’m assuming you can too. You should prolly go look at the fucking words others have written before trying to claim that no one has defined this thing that everyone’s been defining…
Yes, sadly, killing people has been necessary too often in history and it will be necessary again. The world is not Disneyland.
Another band like A-Ha that sings in English but don’t actually know English that well, so their lyrics have that adorable Google-translate feel to them. “Take On Me?”
@ahostileworld
What Athywren quoted:
You just said it was much easier to fool yourself into thinking rape was okay. That is because rape culture exists. You try to prove it doesn’t exist by…pointing out the people may not have known it was rape? But that proves the exact opposite of your point. People don’t know what rape is because it’s viewed as “scary stranger jumps out and attacks woman” so rape that happens between two people who know each other is just a ‘misunderstanding’. while trying to prove rape culture exists your words say almost the exact opposite.
“Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright.”
Unlike those,”edge cases” where one has to break shit (even if it puts others at risk) to make one’s efforts in the realm of civil rights noticed.
You know, where you compared the struggle against male circumcision, and parental custody to WW2 where, firebombing entire cities was essential to the cause.
Yes, sadly, killing people has been necessary too often in history and it will be necessary again. The world is not Disneyland.
hrmn… sounds like you have a fuzzy idea of murder, to go along with your fuzzy idea of rape.
@ahostileworld
Not going to get into whether killing people can be justified or necessary, but more often than not, it’s not. And what is justified/ necessary changes from person to person. More of why it’s better to not fucking kill people because they’ll all have different ideas of what is/ isn’t justified. Things might work out better if less people are dead :/
So ahostileworld, I’m drawing a comic with you. Would you like to furnish me with a physical description?
Not by your crocoduck interpretation of rape culture, no, but by the actual definition? Yes, exactly. Rapists can excuse their rape as not rape is very much an aspect of rape culture.
No. Rape culture is that which defends, excuses and obfuscates rape. It couldn’t be that scene in that movie where there’s a bomb that they manage to disarm just in time.
The World Is Not Disneyland: Prog Rock
ahostileworld: since you’ve made your own bog, perhaps you should go there.
D’aww. *blush*
Flattening will get you anywhere!
I could break it down…
Fooling yourself into thinking you didn’t rape someone = believing that the actions you took were not rape = you thinking that what you “gathered” was consent or, alternatively, thinking that consent was automatic and no one took it away. This is “alright” because you a) are ignorant of what consent means, b) are ok with the actions you took that were in fact rape, c) are not only okay with it, but you’ve managed to justify it to yourself. How is this possible if consent is so clearly defined, everyone knows what it is, and rape isn’t culturally acceptable?
Please, please tell me how you manage to say both:
a) a fuckload of people (5% of men) can be ok with their actions of raping someone enough that they don’t even know they’ve committed rape
and,
b) that there is a culture in society today that denounces rape so hard and so strongly that these people couldn’t possibly believe what they were doing is right.
Saying there is no rape culture is de facto saying, in your own words, that rape is so heinous and well defined that there should never be a misunderstanding and it’s so roundly denounced that no one should ever be okay with their actions being rape.
Which is incongruous with saying that a large percentage of the male population is actually able to “fool” themselves into thinking what they did was straight up totes okay.
It’s kinda one or the other here, you can’t have both. If you’re trying to say you can have both, you need to go the extra step and explain why they make sense, because from where I’m sitting (I have one of those gender studies degrees you were whinging about earlier, and I also have a med degree which is imo pretty STEM so yea, pretty well rounded education) those two things are completely at odds.
That’s certainly how you use the term.
‘You try to prove it doesn’t exist by…pointing out the people may not have known it was rape?’
I am not trying to prove anything. So now you are saying that 5 percent of men not knowing they are rapists is indicative of a ‘rape culture’. That leaves around 98 percent of humanity with a clear view of what is rape. So in other words, *we* live in a ‘rape culture’ that is determined defined by just over 2 percent of humanity? What influence do the other 98 percent have on humanity?
*bangs head on wall* oh hostile one, I have an anecdote for you. See, I’ve got this ex, he’s on Megan’s list now, and well, here…
See, this teenage boy, non-white (this is relevant) posted an ad on CL seeking an NSA sexytime encounter. My ex saw it, replied, and, long story short, got caught with his pants literally down and a 14 year old sucking his cock. My wonderful example of human idiocy maintains, probably to this day, that he did nothing wrong because the kid was literally seeking sexytimes.
That, oh fish monger, is how rapists justify their actions. And when it sounds plausible to other people, when other people (who are not rapists themselves) use similar “logic” when talking to victims, that, oh hostile one, is rape culture.
Pecunium — what kills me is that I’m fairly sure I saw that fucking spindle my first 5 min in your place, but my brain was too scrambled to remember where. Glad your bobbin chaos is sorted though, you were making grumpy faces about that one.
Oh, I failed to mention how the kid’s skin color is relevant — said ex logic’ed that he could get away with it because kid’s parents wouldn’t care what happened to him.
So you can add good old American racism to that fucked up mess.
A thread only a couple days old with more than 1,200 posts? Whaddya know, a troll.
I still haven’t caught up (will do, eventually), but as one of the resident Troll to English translators here, I just want to apologize for not having been able to interpret our hostile visitor’s drivel. It’s just that… how do I put this? You know when someone who hasn’t understood how absurd, surreal humor works randomly goes “bananasplits engage furiously of butterfingers misandry”, thinking that it’s funny because OMG SO RANDOM?
That’s what this is. Still have to echo an earlier statement: At least this troll has actually acknowledged that there are posts addressing zir, which is more than can be said for many others. If only the stuff ze wrote was consistent instead of all over the place.
@ 36 years old, grey hair, wheelchair-bound, on the larger side.
@katz.
Yay! Pierre!
Can he look like Basil Fawlty?
You know, bigoted, white, BRITISH and bafflingly stupid?
“hrmn… sounds like you have a fuzzy idea of murder, to go along with your fuzzy idea of rape.”
Yeah well we already determined that assuming he was using pro-life definitions of murder makes us pro-life. You expect him to understand warfare?
Relatedly, my mother had the perfect answer to That Question — “keep it up and I will have”
Thanks!
The world is not Disneyland. Here are some other amusement parks the world is not:
* The world is not Tivoli Gardens
* The world is not Xetulul
* The world is not Storybook Land
* The world is not Overseas Chinese Town
* The world is not the EPCOT Center
Other things the world is not:
* Castanets
* A Mylar balloon
* My stepson
* A suede jacket
* Tempeh bacon
I’m not sure how this advances the discussion, but I’m happy to have made a contribution at least as valuable and interesting as anything Mr. Hostility has written.