Categories
a voice for men are these guys 12 years old? johntheother lying liars misogyny MRA

The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

1.9K Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
katz
11 years ago

I don’t see how you couldn’t study both gender studies and chemistry.

Especially since biology is required for gender studies.

Ally S
11 years ago

Sure your youth is over by the time you reach university,

IF

you’re a dolt

you were lazy

you had to repeat numerous years

you are 87 by the time they finally, grudgingly, allow you to get a tertiary education

The rest of us, who are not subnormally intelligent, were 17 or 18 when we became sophomores at a university.

I’m sorry to break it to you, but there are many good reasons one would want to delay university. Not everyone can fit into your stupid categories.

kittehserf
11 years ago

Athywren – surely that should be the CATway gods?

Becaues kitties!

katz
11 years ago

Interestingly, the religionists on this website use the same arguments that Christian religionists use elsewhere

“No who I’m talking to, when I make this argument, everyone responds the same way.” A damning condemnation if I’ve ever heard one.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

He was playing around with wordpress because he was unfamiliar with the software and he is not a blogger and will not be a blogger anytime soon.

katz
11 years ago

Incidentally, ahostileworld, you’re still strongly opposed to going off-topic and you consider that trolling, right?

ahostileworld
11 years ago

I used the last one and a half hours reading the articles people suggested I read. Well, four of them. I returned here and saw that people had moved on from the topic themselved.

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

Bwaahaahaahaa , trollin’ the troll.

Hostile, sweetie, my Hubby used to work in Germany, don’t make him German!

Personally still not believing you till you do that dance and song act I requested earlier.

Nom, nom, nom luvly, luvly eggs. 🙂

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“Yeah, there’s your lack of academic success, right there. Work on it.”

What is this even supposed to mean? Cuz I’m glad I didn’t get pushed ahead when I could’ve — I would’ve been taking calculus at Yale at 16 or 17.

Good luck insulting my intelligence, pecunium may well be the only person I know, who isn’t too buried in work to email, who’s smarter than me. (No insult to the rest of y’all, I mean people I know face-to-face)

…and we’ve seen what he thinks of your intelligence

Marie
11 years ago

@troll

2013 at 5:48 pm

I used the last one and a half hours reading the articles people suggested I read. Well, four of them. I returned here and saw that people had moved on from the topic themselved.

The world does not revolve around you. of course we moved on.

Though now that you’re back, respond.

kittehserf
11 years ago

I’ve posted from the US on occasion – does that make me American?

(Hope not, I don’t need the Republicans harassing me. Gods know our government’s bad enough.)

kittehserf
11 years ago

Also, ALL THE SNUGGLES for witchy kitty love! ♥ ♥ ♥

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

Athywren – surely that should be the CATway gods?

Becaues kitties!

YES!
For the record, though I invented the name out of whole cloth, they do exist. They don’t have any power, and they don’t talk or anything but they’re as much gods as any other god. They look a lot like this.

SittieKitty
11 years ago

pecunium is also super articulate and that’s fucking fantastic.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Yes it did take me much longer than 20 minutes.

@ Marie, respond to what specifically. A whole range of things were said.

katz
11 years ago

This is what happens when you piss away your youth in a gender studies class rather than studying something useful like mathematics or chemistry.

Okay, look, if you’re going to dismiss other people’s backgrounds as worthless, you need to stop there at “useful.” As soon as you add what you would consider useful, it no longer works as a dismissal because it can turn out that I majored in chemistry.

Because I did.

pecunium
11 years ago

McGee: This is what happens when you sleep through class. You made an assertion of fact. That, from a logical standpoint is a positive claim. You are poistive rape culture doesn’t exist.

Have some elaboration:Burden of Proof

You have not. You just have not. You like your own imaginary friend better than other people’s imaginary friends, but it is still just that: an imaginary friend.

You lie, you just continue to lie.

What is the rate of rape in the US/UK?

What is the rate of conviction for accused rapists?

What is the level of credibility given to women who report being raped?

How many men admit to engaging in activities which are legally rape?

The answer to those questions, and more, have been provided. You don’t like them, and pretend they never happened.

So, sweetcheeks, gonna respond to those, or treat it like your time on the General Staff… something to pretend you never demanded.

2.) It is neither particularly rare nor particularly common.

Liar. Rates between 1:6-1:4, it’s right up there with jaywalking.

Then again, when you posited that “no one has ever been helped by the idea of rape culture”, you got testimony showing you were talking out your ass (which, since you keep your head up there, seems to be par for the course), and blithely moved the goalposts… well intellectual honesty and you seem to be unacquainted.

My nationality. This ophelia individual has been sniffing around it for I don’t know how long.

No, that’s actually not the issue; it’s the tactic. The issue is your level of veracity. The question of your nationality is just one of the more obvious tokens of it. That it’s so needless is what makes it probative.

Yeahyeahyeah, you’re totes studying a STEM subject. You do realise that consistent lack of evidence results in the rejection of the hypothesis? Yes? So if I claim there is a teddy bear under my bed and people have a look and they don’t see one, they will conclude that there is no teddy bear under my bed? Right?

yanno, for a non-native speaker who resides in his country of birth, you are really hep to the lingo of some decidedly anglo-centric issues of gender relations; metaphors and idioms culturally relevant to the US, and spellings idiosyncratic to affected twits and older brits.

I wonder why that is.

pecunium
11 years ago

BlackBloc: Where did you get your STEM degree, so that I can cross it off the list of schools to potentially send my nephew and/or eventual children to?

The same place he got the military experience he demanded the rest of us possess before we could opine on what the Allies ought/ought not have done in WW2; as he was telling us RAF Bomber Command was the Non-Russian contribution to victory in Europe (D-Day, N. Africa, Italy and the rest of the “second fronts” being immaterial).

Marie
11 years ago

Ninja’d by Auggz. All of them. I only did four or five links. And Argenti linked you to some studies on google scholar, if you’d rather studies than anecdote. Though one of mine was a study.

Okay, lets start with the one where five percent of men admitted to raping someone.

Do you really think five percent of people would admit to murdering someone? (one of your comparison crimes)

kittehserf
11 years ago

The sock smell is getting stronger every minute with this one, regardless of apparent location.

pecunium
11 years ago

Argenti: Oh… the fucking mauve sockyarn… Yes, that’s done. I’m on my second project since then (about to be done with it. Two short makes, and then three-reels and one plyig session).

Bobbin problem is fixed (a bit of needle filing). Spindle is still missing. Since my pension isn’t going to be fucked up, I may order a couple one of those spindles to replace the missing one; and a few more bobbins so I can do more drop-spinning (I want bobbins to reel spindles onto, so I can make longer skeins of drop-spun yarns).

ahostileworld
11 years ago

auggziliary, you fail to impress. In response to my scepticism toward the usefulness of the term ‘rape culture’ I was asked to read a series of articles. My question is fair. I should like to know which point specifically I should address now that I read the articles, unless of course throwing a whole bunch of URLs at me was just a case of spray and pray.

pecunium
11 years ago

In the YAY! dept. I got an envelope from Shaennon today.

katz
11 years ago

I returned here and saw that people had moved on from the topic themselved.

Sigh. You’re still forgetting that we can scroll up and see that you brought up what people studied in college completely out of the blue. As well as pretty much every topic change we’ve had in this exceptionally wide-ranging conversation.

And if you can detect derailing from light-years off, why are you so bad at preventing it?

katz
11 years ago

My Blog Is Empty: chiptune

One and a Half Hours: pop rock

1 45 46 47 48 49 75