Categories
a voice for men are these guys 12 years old? johntheother lying liars misogyny MRA

The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

1.9K Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
sparky
sparky
11 years ago

Would I be a total nerd if I said I thought best part of this whole exchange was when hostility was all like “I’m right because rules of logic,” and everyone else was like, no, that’s not how that works, the burden of proof is on you.

I thought that part was awesome.

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
11 years ago

The witchy kitties are correct, because I totally love them!!

Brooked
Brooked
11 years ago

Good grief. This is what happens when you piss away your youth in a gender studies class rather than studying something useful like mathematics or chemistry. Your ability to think logically is obviously indelibly compromised.

When faced with a generic Gender/Women’s Studies insult I turn to Shaenon’s “A Young Lady’s Guide to Higher Education” for illumination.

Q: What is MRA’s deal with Gender/Women’s studies anyway? Do a lot of people get those degrees? Is that inherently stupider than getting degree in philosophy or marketing or Latin-American studies or poli-sci? Or is it just that gender isn’t worth talking about academically?)

A: Obviously it’s the stupidest degree because it studies women, the stupidest people. Second stupidest is a tie between all degrees held by large numbers of women, from English lit to biochemistry.

Third stupidest: Puppetry.

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
11 years ago

Okay, so maybe no snorgling, but this puffer fish is pretty darn cute!

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Sure your youth is over by the time you reach university,

IF

you’re a dolt

you were lazy

you had to repeat numerous years

you are 87 by the time they finally, grudgingly, allow you to get a tertiary education

The rest of us, who are not subnormally intelligent, were 17 or 18 when we became sophomores at a university.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Reblogged this on ahostileworld's Blog.

Bostonian
Bostonian
11 years ago

Oh geez, the new troll is just a blog spammer.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Puffers? This is what my little guy is.

They don’t really snuggle though…

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

Oh sweetie, I’d go and read your blog, but I fear all I’d hear is:

http://youtu.be/qS7nqwGt4-I

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Sophomores? Cuz I was 18 my freshmen year, did not stay back, and was one of the youngest in my graduating class.

You suck at math. Big surprise that is.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

I’m not bad at mathS, I am just a good student.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Who apparently skipped at least two grades and has decided that makes the rest of us dumb.

Not that anyone with your scattershot logic and lack of understand positive v negative arguments skipped two grades.

Marie
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

Why do I care what age someone leaves a university at? And I think you just have a different definition of ‘youth’ than most people. (others seemed to think under 18, ie: high school, middle school, ect.)

I’m not bad at mathS, I am just a good student.

…You said:

The rest of us, who are not subnormally intelligent, were 17 or 18 when we became sophomores at a university.

Implies either you think everyone skipped a grade or two, or you made a mistake in your math. I’m guessing it’s the later one.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

I was 23. I’m glad I took my time over applying – if I’d gone straight from school, I would’ve studied literature. That would’ve been fine, of course, but it wouldn’t have been as inspiring as physics and astronomy have been.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

‘Not that anyone with your scattershot logic and lack of understand positive v negative arguments skipped two grades.’

Yeah, there’s your lack of academic success, right there. Work on it.

katz
11 years ago

As for the talk shop about WW2, you are now trying to divorce the Allied victory from the bombing campaign. Absurdly enough, you mention ‘loss of manpower’ that incurred Germany’ eventual defeat. May I ask who lived in those cities? People perhaps?? Who provided…manpower???

Thanks for answering my question!

Since you have the memory of a flea, I’ll recap: You originally brought up WWII to justify why you should be able to burn down people’s houses if it’s important for accomplishing your goals. You said that the Allies couldn’t have won WWII without burning down some houses. This inspired several of us to ask whether you were also allowed to murder people if it would help your cause. You refused to answer.

But you’re now saying that the Allies couldn’t have won WWII without killing a bunch of people, and since you’ve previously considered “the Allies needed to do it in WWII” sufficient proof that you should also be able to do that for your own cause, you are now advocating murdering people.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

@ David Futrelle, thank you for finally clearing that up. Now let us see if a certain someone realises that she has a cartonful of egg on her face.

Marie
11 years ago

<blockqutoe.Yeah, there’s your lack of academic success, right there. Work on it

wow. apparently we are all failures because we didn’t skip grades XD (or most of us. Idk if anyone did.)

Hey, ahostileworld, I skipped two grades, but they were 11 and 12, and then I got my GED XD

Bostonian
Bostonian
11 years ago

You are still the idiot who thinks he can argue coherently without presenting a shred of evidence.

But that point is moot, you are only here to promote your stupid blog, anyway.

SittieKitty
11 years ago

A little bright spark here for those living in the night: it’s called a fetus when it’s still in, it’s called a baby when it’s out.

Sorry, haven’t caught up yet, dunno if they’re even still not banned, but to correct this bullshit (because fuck wrong gestational crap and I KNOW THIS STUFF AND IT PISSES ME OFF)…

It’s actually called a blastocyst until it’s implanted and differentiates into the embryo and placental tissue. It’s an embryo until approx 8 weeks after fertilization (or 10 weeks in regular gestational timing lingo), then it’s considered a fetus until birth, whereupon it’s called a neonate, then varyingly an infant, toddler, child, preteen, teen, adult.

A baby is not a technical term and can be used for all stages of development. It’s often used as a term in obstetrics because fetus is clinical and often implies inhumanity and most people who are going through prenatal care are intending to carry to term. So baby is usually used to make it seem familiar and human to the parents of said child.

Two completely different terms used for two completely different things.

Christ, bullshit about obstetrics annoys me so much. It’s not like there isn’t enough falsehoods and lies and mistruths out there…

katz
11 years ago

Old Hat, Try Harder: Country

Look Here, Sunshine: Bubblegum pop

Your Own Imaginary Friend: Indie folk

Yeahyeahyeah: Okay, that actually is (very similar to) a real band name.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Yes, because my blog is empty.

kittehserf
11 years ago

gillyrosebee – yeah, I’m getting a whiff of Al socks from this one.

::crosses fingers in hopes that later thread comments will show David’s banned kicked his arse off the site::

1 44 45 46 47 48 75