The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of people.
Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.
It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.
Here’s what it gets right:
1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.
2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.
As Kelly notes:
Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …
Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.
Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:
According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.
It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.
In other words: Cool story, bro.
3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,
the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.
“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”
Indeed, Kelly writes:
It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.
But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.
1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.
2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.
3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?
I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.
4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!
Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!
Yay! Argenti saves me with links to studies! 😀 (don’t know how to do that google scholar thing).
Rancid Out-Group (punk rock)
Stream of Mentality (experimental jazz-fusion)
Absurdly In-Group (boy band)
Absurdly And And (new wave)
Nature of Infantilisation (indie folk)
So, studies which show that men who are asked if they have done things which are legally rape are willing to admit to it, and think there is nothing wrong… not evidence.
Events like Stuebenville, where the rapists are being told they were treated too harshly (because they had their “lives ruined”, and might spend as much as two year in jail for committing a rape), while one of the people who made it possible to prosecute them is being threatened with 10 years in prison for how he he went about getting the attention needed to overcome the cover up… not evidence.
Maryville, where the victim’s house was burned down, and her family was chased out of town; after the rapist 1: confessed and 2: the prosecutor dismissed the charges because “it was just kids being kids”…. not evidence.
Nope, no real world effects on women.
Marie — if you search for studies of [thing] it usually gives scholar results at the top and a link for more of ’em.
For me to accept that there is a rape culture, three criteria would have to be met:
1.) Rape would have to be common – as common an occurence as, for instance petty theft or jaywalking.
2.) At the very most, a small minority in society would be of the opinion that rape is bad or that there even is such a thing as rape.
3.) Obviously, no legislation to outlaw rape would be in existence.
As long as those criteria aren’t met, we do not live in a rape culture, but in a society where, lamentably, murder, rape, grievous bodily harm, theft and many other crimes happen.
@argenti
Huh. Did not know that. Thanks for telling me :3
Ahem.
21) Miscommunicating God (Satanist Rock)
You can establish a criterion for defining rape culture (Let’s peg it as: “Normalizing rape as an event that occurs, not an action carried out by human actors. Minimize the sanctions against rapist. Maximize the sanctions against female victims. Posit that women may deserve rape if they do not live up to certain standards of behaviour).
22) Detectable Culture (Futurist Punk)
Test for the social impact of these assumptions, by sociological means. Mass interviews, psychological tests, readings of literature in a time period, analysis of public speeches, step-by-step breakdown of guidelines to improving public awareness of rape in a given period of time (Is advice centered on perpetrator, or on victim? Is advice palliative or condeming?)
23) Adress,Re-Phrase, Speak (Pop)
Compile results. Look into results as relating to the socio-economic background of the participations in the studies and the same as applies to the demographics of the mass data. Look for causative, qualitative links that hint at how rape is percieved, worked with, talked about, offered explanations for and given consideration about.
24) Scientific Existence (Electronica)
Arrive at the reasonable conclusion that there is general assumption in the world that “rape” is an event that happens to people, not an action perpetrated by human actors. Realize the data available from your mass studies tells you that in most cases where the subject of “rape” comes up, it is dealt with as a thing to avoid, and people remain to blame if they somehow subject themselves to it (Advice takes the form of: “She should have” and “If only you’d”). Understand that the 20 million people in the United States will experience rape, or close analogues to rape, in their lifetime according to some reports, and that yet, rape is treated as a negible crime that one brings on one self by “Wearing clothing that asks for it”.
25) Positively Estabishing Miscommuncation (Rythm and Blues)
Cry.
Cry some more.
Feel sad about the state of the world.
Vow to be less of a fool.
Treat people better.
Never, ever make the analoge of “Dog shit culture” to “Rape Culture” again.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Rape+culture#
26) Miscommunicating Science, Miscommunicating What I Mean, But I Fear Postively Establishing The Existence Of Rape Culture (You, right now, right here. Concievably, you play Classical Music, that most played and repeated strain of musical subgenres, the things everyone has already heard a thousand times before)
@ahostileworld
1) follow argenti aertheri’s likn
2) bzzz I’m sorry, you are wrong, rape culture is not exactly what you define it as. Play again tomorrow.
Why hasn’t this shithead been banned yet?
Dogshit Culture (New Wave Punk Fusion)
Is the Dark Lord aware of the level of shit hostility is spewing?
Hah, @Sparky, you didn’t number yours so my list is still in order. “Stream of Mentality” is a good one! Nice.
@inurashii
… I was thinking more like a cover band that just made covers of “Who let the dogs out”. Forever.
@ Alice Sanguinaria | October 21, 2013 at 8:02 pm
I am an out and proud NIN fan 🙂 *rushes to google HTDA bc personal musical knowledge has not advanced since about 1998*
Let’s go back to talking about people we find attractive! That was fun. And productive. Unlike talking to HostilityTroll. Unless… HostilityTroll, do you think Benedict Cumberbatch is attractive? Why or why not? Discuss.
McGee: 1.) Rape would have to be common – as common an occurence as, for instance petty theft or jaywalking.
Nope.
Just nope. Look at the Financial Sector. There is a fraud culture there.
And we have a “Sports culture” even if vast swathes of the populace don’t follow sports.
Culture isn’t what people “do” per se, it’s how they look at what is done.
2.) At the very most, a small minority in society would be of the opinion that rape is bad or that there even is such a thing as rape.
This is nonsensical. If we have a significant minoroty who disbelieve the idea of rape (and we have at least that; given that so many people insist that rape requires at least the threat of violence to be, “real rape”),and who will defend the idea of preventing even the investigation of rape (see Julian Assange).
3.) Obviously, no legislation to outlaw rape would be in existence.
Actually, this is 180° from the case. One doesn’t outlaw things which aren’t a problem. If there were no “rape culture” then the need to 1: expand awareness of what rape is, and 2: the need to outlaw it, wouldn’t exist.
So, you have one point which is constructed to make it impossible to attain the level of proof required, one which is nonsense, and one which is contrary to your thesis.
It should also be noted, you are the one with the case to prove. You have proposed there is no rape culture. You have to defend that case; the burden of proof is on the person making the affirmative claim (i.e. You affirm rape culture is a myth).
Go get ’em Tiger!
Shit… Time’s a wastin’. I have to run to get the yarn in the post before they close the window.
Have fun while I’m away. If you don’t break the toy before I get back I’ll play with it some more.
And in order for you to accept that evolution happens, you’d expect to see a dog birth a cat, right?
Understanding what you’re arguing against is important, y’know? Even if it does turn out to be absurd, such as with the concept of the existence of a good god who cares whether we believe in it, you cannot begin to approach a rational position on the existence or non-existence of the phenomenon in question unless you have the slightest clue of what it is.
>>>1.) Rape would have to be common – as common an occurence as, for instance petty theft or jaywalking.
1 in 4 to 1 in 6 women in their lifetime.
>>>2.) At the very most, a small minority in society would be of the opinion that rape is bad or that there even is such a thing as rape.
Or maybe, you know, everybody says rape is bad, except they only mean “stranger jumps out of the bushes” rape and redefine 99+% of rapes as “not really ‘rape’ rape”.
>>>3.) Obviously, no legislation to outlaw rape would be in existence.
How about on the book legislation accompanied by a generalized attitude by law enforcement officials and judiciaries that rape victims are lying, and a justice system built mostly around filtering out rape cases before they even get to court by discouraging victims from reporting?
(This is why, for the record, you’re a failure at skepticism.)
Aw, ahostileworld just won’t accept that there is a rape culture (despite being confronted with stacks of evidence), therefore it just must not exist!
Rape would be the only crime in which the victim, not perpetrator, is routinely blamed for the crime, unlike murder and theft. That’s part of the rape culture.
Your absolute unwillingness to accept it does not make it go away.
No. Positive claims incur the burden of proof.
‘There is a rape culture’ (positive claim)
‘There is not a rape culture’ (negative claim)
The burden of proof rests with he who makes a positive factual statement. Your attempt at flipping this, by turning a negative claim into a statement that is semiotically positive, is classic Christian apologetics 101. Old hat, try harder.
I would of course apply the same scepticism to your assertion that there is a fraud culture.
Goddamn, you don’t know ANYTHING.
Is 1 in 6 women and 1 in 33 men not common enough? No? Perhaps once every two minutes?
Fibinachi: Thanks.
I just too special snowflakey for numbers, I guess 🙂
Asshole McGee:
Rape culture means what I say it means, and I say that because some women can manage to make it through the day without being raped, there is totes NO SUCH THING as rape culture.
Also, rape totally just happens, y’all. It’s like the weather, it’s regrettable and a shame when it’s humid out and my hair gets all frizzy, but what can you do? There are certainly no common myths and misconceptions and deliberate obfuscations used to excuse the violence perpetrated by a set of determined predators, and there couldn’t possibly be a body of study devoted to exploring the way that certain myths, misconceptions and deliberate obfuscations are used to explain away and excuse such violence, because I’ve never read such a body of scholarly work, so ipso facto presto chango, it must not exist!
Also, feminism means what I say it means, and I say that because *reasons* you all are TOTES not allowed to call yourselves feminists!
Nope: you made a positive claim: You assert a fact exists (i.e. rape culture is not a thing)
See if I were to assert that Obama isn’t the President of the United States, I’d have to prove it.
If i were to assert this isn’t the Month of October, I’d have to prove it.
If I were to claim the Allies didn’t mean to bomb Dresden, I’d have to prove it.
Because I positively stated those were true things.
That’s what it means to make a “positive claim”, it’s to assert the truth of a position.
But lots of dishonest people try to pretend that merely casting a statement of fact in a negational phrasing means it not a positive claim.
So, either you don’t logic, and don’t grammar, or you don’t honest (well, could be all three…)