Categories
a voice for men are these guys 12 years old? johntheother lying liars misogyny MRA

The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

1.9K Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Marie
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

Rape culture, sin and prophecy only manifest themselves in the world as a result of the moral panic, alarmism and fearmongering the proselytisers and prophets whip up.

Nope. Rape culture is very real when sexual assault victims are face contempt charges for *naming* her attackers, when fat women are told they should be *thankful* their rapists wanted to have sex with them when people ask for a goddamn mercy call for first time sex offenders and over 5 percent of men will *admit* to rape so long as you don’t use the word rape.

That’s rape culture. That has very real affects on people. You’re in denial if you don’t think it exists.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

Yeah, I never read the whole Bible, either. Hence, I should believe in god.

I know for a fact that you’ve never read about the Cathway gods. I know because I just made them up. Do you have enough information to make any statement about their existence?

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“Ah… the smell of necro in the afternoon. I just got (on my blog) a Zimmerman Defender.”

ORLY? I was looking for a more interesting troll…

ahostileworld
11 years ago

What it *means* ? That question makes no sense whatsoever. You may as well ask me, ‘what do you think is the meaning of the immaculate conception?’

It doesn’t mean anything to me. It is a construct made of bullshit based on a foundation made of horseshit.

(A *rape culture*, honestly! Do we live in a dogshit culture, too, because people leave it on the pavement and there are a few arseholes out there coming up with idiotic justifications for it? Is this what this is? A dogshit culture?)

sparky
sparky
11 years ago

‘It almost sounds like our self-described feminist hasn’t actually read anything feminism has to say about the rape culture.’

Yeah, I never read the whole Bible, either. Hence, I should believe in god.”

So you haven’t, and are talking out your ass about a concept you have no understanding about?

Yep, definitely option B.

pecunium
11 years ago

ophelia: Well, to be fair, they were trying to say, “the jury came to a reasonable doubt, and so acquitted him”.

But they included bullshit about what happened in the period of time when there are no phone records; and put some blame on Martin. Lets just say I wasn’t very accepting of what they had to say.

ostara321
ostara321
11 years ago

Because I am also an atheist. I do not believe in things that are invisible, undetectable, and which have been invented to create fear, alarmism and panic, and which have a religious following of people who appear to think that the mere fact that they believe in it somehow proves its existence.

Oh for fuck’s sake. Just when I think he can’t get any more dim and obtuse, he just digs deeper.

Pro tip: atheism =/= lack of belief in anything and everything intangible, only lack of belief in a deity. That’s the atheos, from the Greek it means without Gods.

Everything else you listed is some weird emotional baggage you’ve slapped onto it. Your rhetoric could be used to explain a lack of belief in love or compassion too.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Ok, I smell sock. He’s gotta knock off the religion thing, it just doesn’t work.

Maybe it’s another fool, but this one already had that whiff.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

What it *means* ? That question makes no sense whatsoever. You may as well ask me, ‘what do you think is the meaning of the immaculate conception?’

It doesn’t mean anything to me. It is a construct made of bullshit based on a foundation made of horseshit.

(A *rape culture*, honestly! Do we live in a dogshit culture, too, because people leave it on the pavement and there are a few arseholes out there coming up with idiotic justifications for it? Is this what this is? A dogshit culture?)

So rape culture is wrong because you’re wilfully ignorant? Interesting.
Rape culture doesn’t exist because you don’t believe in it, and to be aware of what it means and how it is detectable in the world is religious. Right. I’m perfectly willing to believe that you’re an atheist, but you’re clearly not a skeptic.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“What it *means* ? That question makes no sense whatsoever. You may as well ask me, ‘what do you think is the meaning of the immaculate conception?’”

What do you take the definition to be is a valid question whether you believe it or not. For example, the former refers to Mary having been without sin (I think that’s the definition, pecunium, correct me?)

Question was what you think people mean when they say “rape culture” and if your mockery off it isn’t pulled out of your ass, then you can answer that.

Marie
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

Please respond to my links and tell me how they are *not* from a rape culture. And:

(A *rape culture*, honestly! Do we live in a dogshit culture, too, because people leave it on the pavement and there are a few arseholes out there coming up with idiotic justifications for it? Is this what this is? A dogshit culture?)

Unequal comparison. I’ll take you up on your bad analogy anyway, if we lived in a dog shit culture the same way we live in a rape culture, when people leave dog shit on pavement, people would blame you for stepping on it. They’d ask you why you didn’t see the dog shit, you should have known dog shit is all over the sidewalk, just step around it. There’s nothing we can do to avoid stepping in dog shit, so why make a big deal of it and ruin the day of the person who let their dog shit there and didn’t clean it up. You shouldn’t have left your yard so dirty. You were asking for someone to let their dog shit in it.

That’s the difference.

pecunium
11 years ago

Damn… I have to go to the post office, and I smell a sandwich coming on, toasted troll, all melty and full of gooey-goodness.

So, Our Hero, believes we live in a world which has a “female culture”. One which is toxid to men and boys and families.

This, he assures is is real. It needs activists like F4J to overthrow it, and restore equality.

But he denies that the idea of Rape Culture can be real (even though he does attribute effects to it, he just avers they are bad for men).

Then he goes off about tangible things (“dogshit culture”) and expects us to compare unlike things, and so agree his failures of logic on culture is actually valid.

(BTW, I see I won my bets about this question)

why you are so well versed in the ways of Strategy and Tactics that we ought to take your word as dispositive on the effect of indiscriminate bombing of non-military targets; nor your fatuous claim that such bombing was strongly effective in the Allied Victory [placing it above the loss of Manpower, materiel in N. Africa, the diversion of divisions to France in response to the Normandy Invasion) the wasted efforts in things like the V-Weapons, the Bf 163 Komet, pushing the Panther into production too quickly [and field testing it in combat], trying to two more completely new MBTs (the Tiger/King Tiger), and so having three production lines; with concommitant drains on resources, and teething problems, rather than taking a functional design, ramping up production, and working on a single replacement to cope with the T-34. Etc.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
11 years ago

Rank, rancid traditionalism, infantilisation and and endless stream of obfuscation, fearmongering and in-group out-group mentality cultivation of the most absurdly incestuous nature.

Oh man oh man oh man.
Oh man.
Guys. Girls. Gents. Gals. Others. Neithers. Uppers! Downers! New game.
Tumblr Band Name Generator.

I’ll go first:

1) Endless Inftantilisation (Punk Rock)
2) Absurdly Incestous (Noise Rock)
3) In-Group Traditionalism (Country)
4) Rancid Mentality (Metal)
5) Rank Cultivation (Metal)
6) Endless Obfuscation (Surprisingly? Blues)
7) Endless Stream of Nature (Medtitative background music)
8) Fearmongering Obfuscation (Electronic)
9) Out-Group Mentality (My new Pink Floyd coverband)
10) Stream of Obfuscation (Themesong writers for movies)
11) Incestious Traditionalism (Also, Punk Rock)
12) Absurdly Rank (Military Marching music)
13) Fearmongering Nature (Elevator Music)
14) And and the And And’s (Jazz)
15) Stream Of Traditionalism (60’ies swing)
16) Most Incestuous Nature (Dubstep)
17) In-Grou Out-Group, Nature (Experimental Rock)
18) Nature, In-Group, Rank (Marching Band)
19) Mentality Cultivation (Glam Rock)
20) MOST RANK! (Something with a lot of bass)

pecunium
11 years ago

Argenti: What do you take the definition to be is a valid question whether you believe it or not. For example, the former refers to Mary having been without sin (I think that’s the definition, pecunium, correct me?)

It’s a bit more narrow than that. It means Mary was conceived without Original Sin. It doesn’t require her to have never sinned; nor does it argue she actually didn’t sin (esp. as there are places in the Synoptic Gospels where it appears she does).

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Marie, I am doing it as we speak, but I fear, I am miscommunicating what I mean by ‘detectable’, as your first link, at the very least, does not seem to address it – so let me re-phrase: is there any way, by using the scientific method, of positively establishing the existence of a god or a rape culture?

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Pecunium — your troll knows how to logic, and you already logic’ed him. Boo, no chew toy for me!

pecunium
11 years ago

Argenti: You can do it too. It’s ok.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Pecunium — thanks 🙂

And you just proved my point — whether hostility believes it or not, there’s a standard definition.

pecunium
11 years ago

And it’s a her.

ostara321
ostara321
11 years ago

Oh man oh man oh man.
Oh man.
Guys. Girls. Gents. Gals. Others. Neithers. Uppers! Downers! New game.
Tumblr Band Name Generator.

I’ll go first:

1) Endless Inftantilisation (Punk Rock)
2) Absurdly Incestous (Noise Rock)
3) In-Group Traditionalism (Country)
4) Rancid Mentality (Metal)
5) Rank Cultivation (Metal)
6) Endless Obfuscation (Surprisingly? Blues)
7) Endless Stream of Nature (Medtitative background music)
8) Fearmongering Obfuscation (Electronic)
9) Out-Group Mentality (My new Pink Floyd coverband)
10) Stream of Obfuscation (Themesong writers for movies)
11) Incestious Traditionalism (Also, Punk Rock)
12) Absurdly Rank (Military Marching music)
13) Fearmongering Nature (Elevator Music)
14) And and the And And’s (Jazz)
15) Stream Of Traditionalism (60′ies swing)
16) Most Incestuous Nature (Dubstep)
17) In-Grou Out-Group, Nature (Experimental Rock)
18) Nature, In-Group, Rank (Marching Band)
19) Mentality Cultivation (Glam Rock)
20) MOST RANK! (Something with a lot of bass)

Best. Game. Ever.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

But I have nothing much to add, you covered it!

Marie
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

What kind of study are you looking for? Studies on how many people are raped? Studies on how few rapists actually go to jail? One of those was a link to a study on how many men admit to rape. How many studies, links, and stories do I have to give you before you actually think there is a rape culture? Because I don’t think I ever will. You’re just too willfully ignorant.

pecunium
11 years ago

That’s the benefit of being the blog-owner. I get to see the new stuff first. (had to approve the comment). We shall see if she tries to defend the position.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Hostility, learn to google. There are studies a plenty.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Oh, whoops. Then you already schooled her.

1 40 41 42 43 44 75