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The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

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pecunium
11 years ago

I am not so sure. Having examined and analysed this group for several years of beinb a boobz-fan, I have come to the conclusion that the word ‘feminism’ is used and abused as a sort of fashion accessory around these parts. From time to time, somebody comes along and scratches the surface. Beneath the ‘feminism’ of this group? – Rank, rancid traditionalism, infantilisation and and endless stream of obfuscation, fearmongering and in-group out-group mentality cultivation of the most absurdly incestuous nature. So your claim that this group does not need any fundamental feminist ideas explained to them begs the question somewhat.

What question?

NB, you mean, “demands the question/leads to the question of”. begging the question requires 1: a formal argument be made, 2: that one of the Premises contains the Conclusion. This is quite common in debates where someone has an almost religious belief in the position they are trying to defend.

But, since you have obviously been lurking (or perhaps posting under another nym… there does seem to be some emotional baggage on your part) for quite some time, you really ought to be better versed in how your attempts to duck questions, shift goalposts (I almost typoed that as gaolposts; but you aren’t in jail, save the one caused by your blinkered thinking), and otherwise “win” by, “scoring points” wasn’t going to go well.

Because to pull that off, you need to have a plan, with an end game. You have to use evidence, consistent arguments and coherent reasoning. You need to know when to use insult, and have some idea of what insult will be effective.

You are, rather, using the poo-flinger strategy; throwing it all against the wall, and seeing what sticks. That’s ok for performance art in low-rent bohemian coffeehouses, but in the real world leads to the futile display you’ve put on view here.

I have to say, all in all, I’m glad you on the the side of the MRM.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

You don’t know Germany. We learn British English in our schools, especially in the north of the country, where the British soldiers used to be.

As for the talk shop about WW2, you are now trying to divorce the Allied victory from the bombing campaign. Absurdly enough, you mention ‘loss of manpower’ that incurred Germany’ eventual defeat. May I ask who lived in those cities? People perhaps?? Who provided…manpower???
I know it’s a bit of *gendered* term, but the women who lived in those cities were as much a part of the German war effort as the men, who were out in Eastern Europe, murdering Jewish people and Russian people. While their husbands and brothers were doing the killing, back home, they were keeping the German economy going and, perhaps more egregiously, they prepped the young, indoctrinating with a steady stream of anti-semitism and jingoism hatred of Russians, of British people, of everyone who was not German, thus creating a new generation of people that may very well have terrorised Europe and the rest of the world once more, had the Allies not intervened the way they did.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

If a voice for men is so hateful towards women, why are half of its featured writers and editors female? The question, I suspect, will always remain unanswered by the likes of you sick fucks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internalized_sexism

Obvious response is obvious. Have to wonder why not obvious to Rose Maskington? Almost as if wilfully ignorant of social concepts… (and same to hostile pants)

See this is why guys don’t want feeeemale drummers!
(Or as the guy on youtube called me, ‘fat, fucking, feminist c*nt drummers’.)

C*nt drumming sounds… interesting. But how do you amplify it?

Also, interesting fact. Manboobz is blocked at my local library, because porn. Silly library. AronRa’s latest blog on FTB was blocked as well, for intolrance. It’s a funny system they’ve got going on down there.
And on the topic of booze, is a Pink Pugsley a thing outside of the city that knows no h’s? Now there’s a proper sickly drink. It has booze and booze and booze (I forget which ones… possible rum?) and strawberry milkshake… but I always drank the thing that came with the jelly worm, which had the name I don’t remember.

@ kittehserf – YOU are a feminist? 3-4x guffaw to that. You’ve been a good boy and practised all the buzzwords on your vocabulary list.

Snrk! Yeah, kitteh, you’ve been a good little boy. Aren’t you proud of yourself for trying to comprehend the female experience? 😛
rofl
Oh, that’s beautiful. <3

My friend got dogpiled by TERF radscum this past weekend. They were saying the same thing to a trans man in the thread, that society had made him “hate his body so much that [he] wanted to become a man.”

I really don’t understand that mentality. I’m not sure that being n/a is the same as being trans* but I know I’ve never felt any particular hatred for my body or birth gender… it just doesn’t quite fit right. It’s like jeans that are a bit too loose more than being ugly and hated.
Sometimes you’re just don’t quite fit yourself. It’s not about societal pressure or self-hatred. Stupid terfs.

Athywren — I am less than thrilled with the stunning lack of occult items that were in the original, from the box no mods or patches, game.

Do you mean that Final Nights lacks them? I think they’re just shuffled around a bit, put into different locations for reasons that I don’t remember.
More importantly though, yay fishies!

Genius, I used the word ‘baby’, not ‘fetus’. That avalanche of faux-indignant verbal diarrhoeia was completely unwarranted, and quite frankly, it scared me a little.

So? Are you so unaware of the arguments around abortion that you don’t know that anti-choicers* almost always use the word ‘baby,’ or ‘child,’ and never ‘fetus’ for emotionally manipulative reasons? How is that possible?

*No, I don’t call them anti-choicers to be contrary. I call them that because criminalising abortion and birth control leads to higher rates of abortion.

I literally have no idea what to make of this. ahostileworld, please explain to me how recalling how words have been used before is ‘pseudo feminism’.

Memory is misandry.

She even threw in my fave, her claim that pregnancy’s “physical risk is lower than that of taking low-dose aspirin for a year”.

Uh huh… but how physically risky is it to take a blood thinner for a year?

I am not so sure. Having examined and analysed this group for several years of beinb a boobz-fan, I have come to the conclusion that the word ‘feminism’ is used and abused as a sort of fashion accessory around these parts. From time to time, somebody comes along and scratches the surface. Beneath the ‘feminism’ of this group? – Rank, rancid traditionalism, infantilisation and and endless stream of obfuscation, fearmongering and in-group out-group mentality cultivation of the most absurdly incestuous nature. So your claim that this group does not need any fundamental feminist ideas explained to them begs the question somewhat.

Yeah. These sort of tactics work on individuals who are uncertain of how their views fit into the categories being mentioned and who lack the confidence to assert themselves. Attempting this kind of thing on a large group of fairly confident and informed people seems foolish to me. You’re a good laugh, though, I’ll give you that.

Anyway, time to cap off this wall o’ text…

Marie
Marie
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

No, why won’t you give me your amazing definition of feminism? 🙁 I must know how I’m doing it wrong.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

As for the talk shop about WW2, you are now trying to divorce the Allied victory from the bombing campaign. Absurdly enough, you mention ‘loss of manpower’ that incurred Germany’ eventual defeat. May I ask who lived in those cities? People perhaps?? Who provided…manpower???

Destroy a house and kill its inhabitants, and you perhaps reduce the effective workforce by six or seven. Destroy a factory and you reduce the effective workforce by hundreds – workers with nowhere to work are just as useless as dead workers.

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

My arse hostility!

The modern teaching is ‘Jail’, only pretentious Brits use the Olde fucking English, and you are definitely pretentious! (and British!)

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Just out of curiosity, how should I go about proving it to you (if I could be bothered)?

Marie
Marie
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

Proving what?

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

@Athywren :). With feminism of course! Although that might be a bit shrill…

ahostileworld
11 years ago

My nationality. This ophelia individual has been sniffing around it for I don’t know how long.

Marie
Marie
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

Not sure/ don’t care, your nationality is pretty low on my list of concerns.

PS: if you’re so much more feminist than the rest of us, can I hear your definition of feminism/ what you think it is.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Marie, I use the dictionary definition of feminism, which is equality for women. Equal means equal. Which means that conversely, men are equal to women. In my world I should like to extend this by saying that children should be seen as equal to men and women.

Marie
Marie
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

And what have we done that implies we think that men and/or children are less than women?

@auggz

Wait… Incest? We’re… Family? And we’re… Having sex?

Hey, it’s news to me too 😉

sparky
sparky
11 years ago

ahostileworld: Seriously, I’m confused, what the hell is your point?

Apparently we’re not feminist enough for you. According to you, we engage in:

” Rank, rancid traditionalism, infantilisation and and endless stream of obfuscation, fearmongering and in-group out-group mentality cultivation of the most absurdly incestuous nature.”

So why are you still here?

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Pecunium — good to hear, I knew you wanted your spinning wheel back. You solve your spindle problem?

Athywren — yeah, but I have inspection ten and fucking scoured the place and I can’ tinder basic things like the galdjum. Not in the warrens (though I haven’t checked since inspection ~7, not in my haven, nowhere that I can find it)

Salubri save on Tin Can Bill and uh, Paul the ghoul’s girlfriend, I don’t remember her name. And I’m not nearly as squishy as I though, blasted through the Society last night.

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

Hostility, I think you should hop on one leg with one eye closed singing ‘das Deutschlandlied’ all the time examining why you feel the need to troll sites and tell people how they are doing feminism wrong.

Shit…I’m sure I could have worked a mango into that somehow…oh, wait…

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

Marie, I use the dictionary definition of feminism, which is equality for women. Equal means equal. Which means that conversely, men are equal to women.

Yep. That’s why we’re opposed to groups which oppose equality and do nothing at all to help men, despite naming themselves in such a way to imply that it’s all they do.
I don’t see why you think opposing anti-equality groups is a bar to being in favour of equality?

Well, no, I do see why an MRA would see it as a bar, but I don’t see any rational or factually consistent reason to see it as a bar.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Feminismus ist die Antwort, doch was ist die Frage?

Marie
Marie
11 years ago

New question for ahostileworld:

If you’re such a feminist, why do you think we aren’t living in a rape culture?

bonus:

Why are you a feminist when earlier you said you though feminist and mras were equally ridiculous? Are you also an mra?

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

Oh look it did GCSE German! And it’s trying to be deep, aw cute!

Also, I’m going on about it ’cause your comments are so inane and because it pisses you off.

Trolling is the problem, trolling is the answer!

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

Athywren — yeah, but I have inspection ten and fucking scoured the place and I can’ tinder basic things like the galdjum. Not in the warrens (though I haven’t checked since inspection ~7, not in my haven, nowhere that I can find it)

I think some vanilla occult items might be for sale in the White Cloud? Maybe check there? Otherwise… I dunno look down the back of the sofa?
I’ve read about new occult items being introduced, but I don’t remember reading anything about the original dealies being removed.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Because I am also an atheist. I do not believe in things that are invisible, undetectable, and which have been invented to create fear, alarmism and panic, and which have a religious following of people who appear to think that the mere fact that they believe in it somehow proves its existence.

kittehserf
11 years ago

Hey, that’s a first, I’ve just been called a good BOY.

😀

As to the rest, I shall just quote Pecunium:

As to my not striking you as being a feminist… why the fuck do I care what you think of my feminism? You, son, are a dishonest asshole. Ten lbs.s of shit in a two-pound bag. Your disdain, dislike, etc. are the sugar in my tea. They are an elixer (like the tears of men) and give me strength.

Suffer in your jocks, little loser.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Excuse me but what is a ‘GCSE’?

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

Yawn. The trolls on MBZ have really dropped in quality. One might say this world has been hostile to them…

This one is much more boring than the French Canadian (some species of) Orthodox Marxist who has been arguing on a large coalition against hate radio’s FB page that I’m subscribed to that gender theory, GQ/trans* stuff, rape culture and fat acceptance are a petit bourgeois anarchist lifestylist entryist plot to discredit the Serious Left.

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