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a voice for men are these guys 12 years old? johntheother lying liars misogyny MRA

The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

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opheliamonarch
11 years ago

@Hostilitymagnet,

No, YOU, stop, seriously, you’re killing me….can’t…..breath….laughing…..too….hard….

http://youtu.be/en8V2rkBdl8

Also, ophEliamonarch, pffft, spelling AGAIN!

It’s not as if you were German or something!

pecunium
11 years ago

McGee: Pecunium, you are talking to the wrong guy. The ‘sheila’ kerfuffle centred around another user, not me. You are so blinded by hatred, you don’t know in which direction to kick and spit anymore.

Then I made a mistake. Understandable, all in all; it’s not that I am blinded by hate (don’t give yourself airs), but that after a couple of thousand words, and ten pages of obfuscatory blather, one loses some of the sense of difference from one asshole to the next.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Pecunium’s kicking and spitting? News to me!

And we’re pro-life, best part of that? He’s playing GOTCHA, since pro-lifers think we’re, wait for it, baby killers.

Marie
11 years ago

Pecunium, you are talking to the wrong guy. The ‘sheila’ kerfuffle centred around another user, not me. You are so blinded by hatred, you don’t know in which direction to kick and spit anymore.

I feel weird, just quoting ahostileworld’s comments and then laughing at them, but this one is just cracking me up right now XD I’m not even sure why..

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

It’ stage idea of pecunium being blinded by hatred and kicking and spitting. I just can’t even picture that.

I can picture him debating if he should go spin and get back to troll later (you finish that batch from when I was there? And how’re my baby plants doing?)

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

*it’s the idea

Autocorrect hates me.

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

Hey Marie :). I’ve never eaten mango either, or dragon fruit.

Is speaking troll like speaking in tongues? ’cause I’ve heard speaking in tongues is the same as being possessed by Satan.

On second thoughts, speaking troll/speaking in tongues, definitely the same thing!

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Is ahostiledipshit now Boss Feminist? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, that’s fucking cute.

pecunium
11 years ago

Yes. I may be on the the second skein after that. I do need to take that one to the post office, and I ought to see if the new burger place is any good (opened yesterday, at the corner; where the Greek place used to be).

Have to keep the old engine of rage and hatred going; don’t want to wear myself out with the kicking and spitting.

Marie
11 years ago

@ophelia

Is speaking troll like speaking in tongues? ’cause I’ve heard speaking in tongues is the same as being possessed by Satan.

I don’t know. Speaking in troll may be harder to understand… 😛

inurashii
inurashii
11 years ago

I literally can’t even sort out which fake shitty arguments hostiley is even trying to make any more. There is no cause and effect to them.

ostara321
ostara321
11 years ago

Your points of reference are clearly adjusted to and aligned with the pro-life position.

Um, no. I responded to you in the way I would respond to any anti-choice rhetoric, which is very much what your “babies” comment sounded like. Obviously, that was not an unjust interpretation since I was not the only one who interpreted that way.

If you’re assuming I’m “pro-life” because I responded to “babies” the way you’d think I should respond to “fetus” that’s absurd because:

1) See above
2) I find the fetus/baby debate in regards to abortion irrelevant as I’m sure you do, since you’re such a pro-choice advocate. For me, and I’m sure you’ve heard this before, it’s irrelevant whether the thing/person using someone else’s body against their will is legitimately “alive”, what is relevant is that it is using someone’s body against their will. I often liken it to organ transplants. You can’t legally force someone to donate a kidney, you shouldn’t legally be able to force someone to donate their uterus* either.

Personally, I cannot see how this will reasonably harmonise with any feminist position. Unlike you, I have always been of the opinion that a woman should have the right to choose.

Would you care to explain to me at what point I ever said anyone shouldn’t have that right? Unless you interpreted

Still, it’s not really a fair reasoning for limiting people’s reproductive choices.

as “we should limit reproductive choices”?

You are really going off the deep end here. Be careful, you went in without the swimmies.

(Btw, if this offshoot of the obesity acceptance movement in the west, that likes to decorate itself with the term ‘feminist’, because women in Asia and Northern Africa are doing really admirable activist work, wishes to use and abuse other people’s names, it is not they who should in any way feel offended when somebody comes along and points it out. The real offence happened much much earlier than that)

Has this guy hit Troll Bingo yet? There goes the “you aren’t real feminists because you aren’t being treated even worse in another country with brown people in it” space.

*Or time or health or possibly life, etc.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

A little bright spark here for those living in the night: it’s called a fetus when it’s still in, it’s called a baby when it’s out. Aborting a fetus: a fundamental right, as nobody can be forced to keep another person inside their body. Killing /abusing/starving a baby/child: not cool. Go to gaol.

inurashii
inurashii
11 years ago

hostiley, how in the hell are you choosing the one thing you DON’T have to explain to this pro-choice group of people to explain?

inurashii
inurashii
11 years ago

Your bizarre word salad is the reason we thought you were pro-life. What we’re asking is “Why is the killing of born children even germane to this discussion?”

You’re replying with “No, born children. BORN children. You are all pro-life for some reason.”

Brooked
Brooked
11 years ago

This thread is still going?

1) Mangoes are slimy and unpleasant. Pecunium is correct, they should be shunned.

2) Shout-out to my fellow Latvian. (Thenatfantastic I think. This thread is really long.)

3) Loved The World’s End and the soundtrack is a time machine. I own that Soup Dragons record!

4) Valerie Keefe shills for the MRM every chance she gets by repeating the same few talking points ad infinitum. She even threw in my fave, her claim that pregnancy’s “physical risk is lower than that of taking low-dose aspirin for a year”. Keefe stands out as one of the most annoying “columnists” on HuffPost, which is an achievement since HuffPost is a giant annoyance in itself.

Tales of glowing vomit, WW2 military geek talk and a surprise visit from WTF Price… this is one hell of a thread.

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

Okay, ‘gaol’, definitely fucking British!

God fucking damn it…

Marie
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

Do you know what reading comprehension is? We know it’s called a fetus when it’s inside, it’s just that anti choicers still call it a baby, so we responded to what you said as if you were an anti choicer because 1)other wise what you said didn’t make sense and 2) you’re a huge fucking misogynist,why would we suspect anything else from you?

ahostileworld
11 years ago

I am not so sure. Having examined and analysed this group for several years of beinb a boobz-fan, I have come to the conclusion that the word ‘feminism’ is used and abused as a sort of fashion accessory around these parts. From time to time, somebody comes along and scratches the surface. Beneath the ‘feminism’ of this group? – Rank, rancid traditionalism, infantilisation and and endless stream of obfuscation, fearmongering and in-group out-group mentality cultivation of the most absurdly incestuous nature. So your claim that this group does not need any fundamental feminist ideas explained to them begs the question somewhat.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

If we’re not feminist enough for you, feel free to fuck off. Door’s thataway, don’t let hit ya where the good lord split ya.

Marie
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

here, I found a thing for you.

In seriousness, the fact that you claim to be a feminist but don’t think we live in a rape culture says way more about you than us.

Also, please state your definition of feminism. I think it will be very interesting.

pecunium
11 years ago

McGee: Gaol? Not the standard spelling for Germans who learn English (barring those who end up in a Public School), because the vast majority of texts (from which spelling is learned) are geared to the dominant market paradigm, which is american english. I’d been noting your use of the terminal ise, but this is less indicative than something like draught, plough, gaol would be.

Also, in case this direct question slipped your mind:

You never did explain why you are so well versed in the ways of Strategy and Tactics that we ought to take your word as dispositive on the effect of indiscriminate bombing of non-military targets; nor your fatuous claim that such bombing was strongly effective in the Allied Victory [placing it above the loss of Manpower, materiel in N. Africa, the diversion of divisions to France in response to the Normandy Invasion) the wasted efforts in things like the V-Weapons, the Bf 163 Komet, pushing the Panther into production too quickly [and field testing it in combat], trying to two more completely new MBTs (the Tiger/King Tiger), and so having three production lines; with concommitant drains on resources, and teething problems, rather than taking a functional design, ramping up production, and working on a single replacement to cope with the T-34. Etc.

inurashii
inurashii
11 years ago

ahostileworld, listen.

You bring nothing to the table.

Nothing.

Your jabs about the quality of our feminism have not found purchase. We are not deeply wounded or affected. Our confidence is not damaged. You have been a diversion, not an adversary. We are not worried about driving people like you away from the site. You are not painting a concerning picture for us.

I sincerely hope that your time here has been entertaining or educational for you, because if you had any other goal, it has not been accomplished.

You bring nothing to the table.

sparky
sparky
11 years ago

Wow. I can’t even be sarcastic. I’m laughing too hard.

Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

D’awww, Asshole McGee is playing No True Feminist? That’s so cute!

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