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The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

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dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

Anyone can say this or that (a telegraph mast, a dog turd, a nice jacket) is a piece of art. It does not make it universally true.

Likewise, your insistence upon the lack of artistic value in a given object does not mean that it is, in actuality, artistically, socially, monetarily, or historically worthless. But you know that, you stupid little shitbag.

Marie
Marie
11 years ago

yay to dustydeste for summarizing the thread 😀 (not sarcastic, was handy, though trollboy will probably ignore it.)

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
11 years ago

And you conveniently left out the question mark. Including it would have made it more difficult to wrench my example out of context. Quotemining is dishonest.

Look again; the question mark is still there. As is my fundamental question, which remains unanswered as you dance around it.

@eseldbosustow, your point is well taken. I’d argue that this kind of question goes to intent and methods: for people defending the MRAs and their actions, it often seems as if anything they do is legitmate political speech (up to and including advocating violence and murder) because that’s supposedly the only way they can get attention for their terrible plight (why things like non-violent marches and sit ins and petition drives and the like seem out of bounds is always curiously unaddressed), while anything that feminists do (like, you know, decades of diligent work petitioning for redress of specific grievences via the ballot box) is automatically and inherently part of the eeeeeeebil feminazi conspiracy against the menz.

Honestly, I didn’t expect an answer. I just wanted to watch the dance. I was expecting exactly what I got: the avoidance two-step.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

No. Every time I see this kid – sproiiing goes the troll detector. And no fair-minded person will conclude that the change in topics were all my fault.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Fuck off, Asshole McGee.

toujoursgai
11 years ago

@ talacaris – Here’s what I could dredge up:

The gender gaps for American Indians and Hispanics were much higher at 22% and the gender gap for blacks/African Americans was even higher still at 32%.

From here: http://thesocietypages.org/graphicsociology/2012/09/04/race-and-gender-in-higher-education/

But extracurricular activities are often denigrated as un-masculine by pre-adolescent and adolescent boys – especially those from working- or lower-class backgrounds, our research has found. Working class fathers may subtly reinforce the idea that school is feminizing because it was never a source of masculine power for them. In their world, masculinity is not about educational success and the status it brings, but rather from physical prowess and adherence to more traditional masculine roles.

From here: http://www.educationnation.com/index.cfm?objectid=98632732-7AF4-11E2-B644000C296BA163

So yes, it looks like race and class issues greatly complicate the gender gap issue. It’s really hard to find articles that are looking at all three factors though – everything I could find only talked about one or two of them.

eseldbosustow
11 years ago

The fact of the matter is that if the KKK donated to breast cancer research, I still wouldn’t be compelled to think of the KKK as an organization that does good in the world. Likewise, I am not even remotely convinced that the MRM is a legitimate human rights movement just because once upon a time they fumed about a couple of social issues for men and boys that, interestingly enough, feminists and other people were already concerned about without the need for their advocacy. In the meantime while using those legit issues to hide behind a cover of “men’s issues” the MRM has been a hotbed for misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia, absurd right-wing politics, and insecure men who rail on about things like “friendzoning” (as my original post alluded to).

So tell us why the MRM is redeemed in spite of the mountains of bullshit spewed from their camp, if you please.

gillyrosebee
gillyrosebee
11 years ago

dustydeste, for the win! “Asshole McGee” instantly made my day less shitty, and for that I thank you

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

@talacaris:

I know there’s definitely variation tied to socioeconomic class, but I guess more what I’m looking for is research that looks at the actual interaction between class and gender. There’s certainly a link between class and scholastic achievement, and a link between gender and scholastic achievement, but what I’m wondering is if there’s a link between class+gender and scholastic achievement. I think there probably is, but I have yet to find any research specifically on that.

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

Aw, my pleasure, gillyrosebee 😀

Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

dustydeste – “Asshole McGee”? BAHAHAHAHAHA.

eseldbosustow
11 years ago

I also have to question whether a so-called human rights group can be considered legitimate when they have a penchant for being factually and scientifically inaccurate in their rhetoric, running the gamut from the claim that gender is purely biological (transphobia and debunked biological determinism much?), to a bunch of interesting views on myriad statistics about domestic and rape, and even further to a complete historical revisionism of western civilization. Oh, and then there’s the victim-blaming and rape apology.

I mean, for realz, that’s like literally the opposite of what is implied by a word like “legitimate”.

talacaris
11 years ago

toujoursgai: Yes, it looks like it’s more than just gender going on…

Which means it will be unhelpful to treat all boys as monolith and all girls as a monolith when discussing underachievement in schools, except if you want to push an agenda.

eseldbosustow
11 years ago

You know what? I’m not waiting for an answer, I’m calling it. Q.E.D., the MRM isn’t the least bit legitimate.

Now it’s time for coffee. Toodles everyone! ^.^

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

I’m off for a while too, myself; time for a nice roast beef sandwich, some tea, and doing some inks of cartoon girls making ice cream for my sister 🙂

Catch y’all later! <3

talacaris
11 years ago

dustydeste: Yes, that was what was thinking (of two-factor interaction effect)

toujoursgai found something interesting above, but it seems hard to find reports that study several factors at once.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

You really, really don’t seem to like those presidential portraits. Go ahead and destroy them then. What do I care, I’m not American. I don’t mind those portraits. Hell, I don’t even know what they look like.

sparky
sparky
11 years ago

Ah yes, it did get them some negative attention.

And how exactly does making your organization look bad in the press make the family court system more equitable? How many men have been helped by spray-painting the Queen’s portrait?

ahostileworld
11 years ago

I never said there was a direct connexion between defacing the painting and ending circumcision. What I *did* say was that it got people’s attention.

cloudiah
11 years ago

So random people get to decide what is or isn’t art, or what is or isn’t part of the cultural heritage, and then destroy anything they find wanting in that category in order to make a (totally unconnected) point.

Yeah, I don’t think I’m down with that.

opheliamonarch
11 years ago

I reckon @dustydeste should be the official Man Boobz Teal Deer writer, every thread should have a summary like that. 🙂

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Negative attention is better than no attention at all. As I’ve already said. Some people have been too successful, they have become fat, intellectually lazy, complacent and entitled. They are in the habit of having governments that will listen.

Other people don’t. Those people don’t have the luxury of choosing between ‘negative’ and ‘positive’ attention. All the attention they are going to get for the moment is going to be negative.

How did defacing the portrait help people? Well, it got people talking about legitimate men’s and children’s rights.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Violence against inanimate objects, mind you, and I did not say this without a caveat. I used the word ‘possibly’.

Tulgey Logger
11 years ago

Gillyroseby, the point of Asshole McGee’s “villains” question was rhetorical: i.e. “surely you don’t think the suffragettes were villains.”

Just caught up with the thread back to where WTF Price posted and I still have no idea whose portrait was defaced, but Asshole McGee’s wildly inconsistent opinions on art sure are entertaining.

Marie
Marie
11 years ago

Negative attention is better than no attention at all.

This is exactly why Mitt Romney won the presidential election. And ‘rape babies are a gift from god’* guy is Indiana’s** now. Oh wait, neither of those things happened, and both of them got pretty bad publicity, or more of, were accurately quoted.

*don’t remember his name.
**senator, representative? idk which he was running for

Also, ahostileworld, men are not oppressed. All of your talk of “those people don’t have the luxury of choosing the kind of attention’ is making me roll my eyes so fucking hard I fear they will roll out of my head.

cloudiah
11 years ago

So why not murder people, if the government isn’t listening to you? That will get even more negative attention! Be specific, and tell us exactly what shit you think it is okay to break to get negative attention to make people talk about your issues.

Here, you can just add to this list.

SHIT THAT’S OKAY TO BREAK:
* Artwork ahostileworld doesn’t care for

SHIT THAT’S NOT OKAY TO BREAK:
* Books
* Artwork created by engineers

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