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The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

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cloudiah
11 years ago

Hey, how’s the trip going Rogan?

I’m not going to be checking the moderation queue for a loong time. .

Oh no, David’s been infected by the dreaded MRA 2-dot ellipsis!

If anyone wants to read JtO’s original rant about how women have no moral agency without giving AVfM any page hits, someone posted a screenshot on Reddit.

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

RE: cloudiah

Pretty good! I tire out a lot faster than I used to, but big surprise there. Iowa, I have discovered, is on giant corn field. I’ll probably be cutting the trip shorter than planned, due to my brain being a tired brain, but I’m enjoying what I’ve done so far, and the people I’ve gotten to see. I really hope to make it to Seattle, which is my next big rest place. We’ll see.

often_partisan
often_partisan
11 years ago

I looked at the article and then I got to the point where WF Price is considered a “Moderate” WTF? This is a guy that has 4 pages of quotes at Fundies Say the Darndest Things!

HeatherN
11 years ago

Price is married to a feminist? PRICE IS MARRIED TO A FEMINIST?

I’m not a fan of the gatekeeping that sometimes goes on…asking women to prove that they’re “real feminists” or demanding that “real feminists” don’t change their names when married or whatever…but in this case I’ve got to wonder whether Price’s wife really is a feminist…cuz, woah.

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

RE: HeatherN

Hey, you never know with people. Weird couples get made sometime.

scarlettpipstrelle
11 years ago

You’re gonna love John the Otter’s latest collaboration concerning theology: http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/thedailybeast-rtodkelly-men-and-patriarchy-in-the-church-thedailybeast/

Maude LL
Maude LL
11 years ago

I kind of think it’s a crap article. It’s good that someone is pointing out some of the MRA crap, but for the outsider, it doesn’t reflect basic AVfM thinking. I think many people think that MRAs are actual men’s rights activists, which would be cool. The article should reflect their woman obsession more clearly. The description of Hembling and others is ridiculous (something about FeMRA writers of exceptional quality). Hembling’s charisma – XD – seriously, the Otter’s videos are utterly boring. I can watch a whole lot of cheap MRA videos, but I’ve never been able to watch a full Otter video – he just keeps hembling on. And I’ve seen him in person… not charismatic (which is fine, I’m not charismatic either. Just weird reporting).

Now, I wonder if AVfM will treat the writer like it does women writers or reporters? Silly me.

I also want to note, about WTF Price – wtf? In my opinion, the Spearhead is way more extremist than AVfM, by any measure. I can’t even… moderate? Also, if WTF is married to a feminist, he’s a)running a bullshit website as performance art, or b)not married to a feminist. I would go for b). Not in a ‘no true Scotsman’ sense, but come on. Unless she’s a Michelle Bachmann-type ‘feminist’, there’s too much cognitive dissonance.

Dan – most people just don’t understand the burden of being a lone ranger, like they didn’t understand Batman. I hear you (even though you have been deprived of your Free Speech rights to mock mental illness here on manboobz and on that NYT op-ed you wrote that was never published), and support you in continuing your Navy Seal gorilla warfare training to restore world order.

HeatherN
11 years ago

LBT: Yes, strange couples do happen. But this isn’t even strange in a feminist woman + traditionalist man, sort of way. The MRM isn’t just “not feminist,” it’s very much anti-feminist, quite extremely so. And it’s not just sexist, it’s downright misogynist…again, quite extremely so. And W.F. Price isn’t just a reader of MRM websites…he’s the author of a lot of this nonsense.

Bee
Bee
11 years ago

I’m only on the fourth paragraph and I’m already getting stuck.

‘Don’t Be That Girl’ was the brainchild of Men’s Rights Edmonton, a local advocacy group that is part of the Men’s Rights Movement (MRM), one of the quirkiest, fastest-growing, and most frustrating civil-rights movements in the Western world today. ‘Don’t Be That Girl’ was the brainchild of Men’s Rights Edmonton, a local advocacy group that is part of the Men’s Rights Movement (MRM), one of the quirkiest, fastest-growing, and most frustrating civil-rights movements in the Western world today.

Zooey Deschanel is quirky. The MRM is misogynistic and harmful. Two different things.

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

RE: HeatherN

Yeah, but maybe he doesn’t act like that at home. Maybe his wife knows and chooses to ignore it, for whatever reason. Maybe she’s a jerk in some other way and they have a “if we’re equally jerkish, it’s okay,” or he controls her so utterly she doesn’t care, or any one of a hundred reasons.

I just don’t feel comfortable pulling No True ScotsFeminist her.

Maude LL
Maude LL
11 years ago

@ Bee
I thought ‘civil rights’ was pretty laughable in that quote as well…

MordsithJ
11 years ago

I can think of a few possible explanations.
1. The wife is completely imaginary
2. The wife is real but not a feminist, but WTF says she is so it’ll look like he “won,” or something.
3. The wife is real, a feminist, and has decided that letting WTF pursue this strange hobby is cheaper than therapy.

There’s probably a lot more.

Maude LL
Maude LL
11 years ago

LBT
You’re right, I thought it was WTF Price calling her a feminist (hence I doubted that was the case), but I checked back and his wife was interviewed (and the text says ‘self-described feminist’). I withdraw my ‘I don’t think he’s married to a feminist’ part.
The article points out she fell in love with him due to his great compassion… *sounds of my mind being blown*

HeatherN
11 years ago

LBT: Well I’m not definitively labelling her anything, because all I know about her is from the couple of paragraphs in that article. From that it looks like she is familiar with his website and is helping him with it…even latching onto some of his “causes.” The author of the DailyBeast article says he sat down with W.F. Price and his wife, so (unless the author is lying) she exists…and he attributes quotes to her, so again (unless the author is lying) she describes herself as a feminist.

As I said, I hate the gatekeeping that happens…I’m just saying, this particular situation is questionable. I’d be interested in a follow up article that’s just an interview with her, really.

damselindetech
11 years ago

Imo, it’s dangerous to call what the MRAs do as “misguided”. They are often intelligent and manipulative, and know darned well how damaging their views are and how self-serving they are without any regard to the other men they claim to support. Calling them “misguided” allows them to keep denying their blatant and violent misogyny and misdirecting it as something else. It is irresponsible to let them keep up that fascade.

kittehserf
11 years ago

MordisthJ – I like your list. 🙂

MordsithJ
11 years ago

Thanks. I just realized it doesn’t make any sense, because I thought we were still on the thread about the Spearhead article, and haven’t yet read the Daily Beast article. So apparently the first two are moot.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

Hey, since when was it fair to paint otters as MRAs? Otters are awesome, and I’ll not have a bad word said against them!

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

Yeah, I don’t know. I just feel we’d be less served questioning her feminism, and instead actually addressing misogyny within feminism, or how people interpret feminism in misogynist ways. (Yes, I realize that sounds paradoxical… but I’ve seen it.)

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

You’re gonna love John the Otter’s latest collaboration concerning theology: http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/thedailybeast-rtodkelly-men-and-patriarchy-in-the-church-thedailybeast/

Sweet mother of holy ignorance. Yes, women are elevated. That’s why they’re expected to be silent, obedient and never, ever show an inch of skin beyond their faces – if they’re even allowed that.
And I’m getting really tired of the frontman and apex and whatever else fallacies. (Yes, it is a fallacy to assume that being privileged means all members of the group should have universal power, well done.) Guys, pull your heads out into the light, would you? At what point has patriarchy been by all men for all men? Fucking morons.

The article points out she fell in love with him due to his great compassion… *sounds of my mind being blown*

Maybe she thinks she can change him? You know how women are, amirite guys? Guys?…
*flees*
Part of me thinks it’s like an extreme conservative marrying an extreme liberal… but… I just…. how!?

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

RE: auggziliary

And I’ve run into PLENTY of transmisogyny on the intarwebs. And the occasional person who thinks that butches are ruining everything for the REAL women.

katz
11 years ago

Yeah, I wasn’t a fan of that article. It gave the general vibe of “legitimate movement being ruined by a few overly vocal bad apples,” when the fact is that it was founded by those bad apples and any legitimacy there is to it is the marginal part.

StarStorm
11 years ago

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

Dude, I saw that, and the first thing I thought was “Price must be a truly epic fuck because I can’t think of any other reason an admitted feminist would marry him.”

Bee
Bee
11 years ago

Gah. This article needed a much better (or any) editor and fact-checker. Among other things, Kelly’s contentions that Price is reasonable and that the MRM sheds much-needed light on the plight of male statutory rape victims is directly at odds with one of Price’s recent articles, where he claims that a 14-year-old boy recovering from the flu (the fictional Don Draper) couldn’t have been raped by an adult woman because men have agency and can protect themselves.

But yay, WF Price, the “moderate” MRA.

Quackers
Quackers
11 years ago

David, maybe email the Daily Beast with those links on the articles on The Spearhead about his “moderate” views that women shouldn’t be educated or vote. When I read about him being the moderate voice I thought “did you even READ The Spearhead at all?”

I call bullshit on being married to a feminist too. Unless it’s one of those Christina Hoff Summers type “feminists”

I have mixed feelings towards the article, mainly for the same reasons already mentioned here in the comments. Appreciate the takedown of JtO’s lies though. I think the most telling part though is how he mentioned that legitimate male advocacy organizations want nothing to do with the MRM.