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The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

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CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Aw, look, now he’s getting pissy. Still not very interesting, but more so than anything else he’s said so far.

La Strega
11 years ago

Yes, W.F. (William Forrest) Price did get married about eleven months ago in King County, Washington. It’s public record. Her name is not Michelle however. She appears to be from Latvia based on her Facebook page.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

I wouldn’t worry too much, she’ll probably figure out how awful he is and divorce him soon enough.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Où sont les trolls de yesteryear?

This one is no fun.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

You’re not trying to summon the faux wearer of berets, are you?

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Oh, God no. But that was more French than he’ll ever be.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

I still do not think this is a fair representation of what happened, and even if it were, it would be little more than an example of the hasty generalisation fallacy.

La Strega
11 years ago

Although Mrs. Price’s English is excellent, she is relatively new to this country. I expect Mr. Price is her primary “cultural informant.” In other words, she hasn’t had a lot of time to figure out there’s more to understand about the MRM than whatever he is feeding her. I’m kind of surprised that Tod didn’t pick up on this aspect of their relationship, which he paints such a pretty picture of. But then again, he was perhaps protecting her privacy because she was not the primary subject of the story.

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

Newsflash: no human rights movement has ever gained traction when it was not willing to make a noise and break some stuff.

Tell that to Gandhi.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

The deep symbolic message sent by the Mona Lisa is that everyone should completely remove their eyebrows. This is why feminists oppose the idea of it being displayed anywhere.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

You don’t know the first thing about Gandhi. The Indian separatists did not cause any material damage during their struggle? 3x guffaw to that.

katz
11 years ago

How big is the contingent of people who think that it’s a good idea to destroy all art that isn’t about subjects you agree with? They seem to pop up everywhere and it’s terrifying.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

@ katz

What’s weird is how many of them seem to assume that if you don’t like the idea of art being destroyed it must be because you secretly do love the subject. I feel like I’m talking to poorly socialized aliens.

pecunium
11 years ago

hostilityboy:

I still do not think this is a fair representation of what happened, and even if it were, it would be little more than an example of the hasty generalisation fallacy.

Non-responsive. They planned a kidnapping, attempted to run fraudulent adverts, and defaced historical artwork.

You called that, “a mistake”.

On the flip side, you abjure those who think this is wrong because they aren’t all keen on destroying an artwork because you think they ought to dislike the person depicted.

That’s an interesting set of congruent thinking. If one doesn’t like someone, then one is entitled to harm to things which depict them? How about to things they own? What about their actual persons?

Where do you draw the line (esp. since lies, and kidnappings are, apparently, “merely mistakes”.

And why do you refuse to answer direct questions?

pecunium
11 years ago

Grrrr. Blockquote fail.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Whoa, hold the weddin’, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS? From Tod’s blog post:

The Daily Beast article deals with quite a few such claims (and I will be writing about these issues in more detail in the months to come). Notable examples of things I was sure would turn out to be false but ended up being true include:

In the United States, more men are victims of rape each year than women.

There’s no fucking citation for this nugget, of course.

Excuse me, my eyebrows just shot up off my forehead, I must go find them before the cats get them.

pecunium
11 years ago

And now I have to get ready to go to work. Have fun with the chew toys.

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
11 years ago

There’s no fucking citation for this nugget, of course.

Judging by the comments, they appear to be using *that* CDC study.

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

You don’t know the first thing about Gandhi. The Indian separatists did not cause any material damage during their struggle?

Right back at you, sweetie. Gandhi was the first to condemn violence (to people or things), whether by British or by Indians.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Inanimate objects are fair game, people and animals are off-limits.

What do you think of the suffragettes sawing down telegraph masts between London and Glasgow? Villains for destroying a fine example of British engineering?

I answer *some* questions but my troll sensors are super-high-tech. I can detect an attempted derailment from hundreds of light years off.

pecunium
11 years ago

Yeah, I saw that. His commenters are, pretty much, taking it at face value; though some of the discussion is nuanced. One: they are using the 12 month stats we keep dealing with.

Two, some seem to be using a wider definition of rape for men than they do for women.

Three, there is some hinky stuff on age of consent (related conversation in comments).

He also buys into the “debtors prison” issue, and doesn’t address the questions of counsel properly, nor that it’s not really being imprisoned for debt.

He is a lot more sympathetic to the MRM than the impression one might get from the piece Dave was writing about. Basically he seems to think the are, largely, in the right, but have bad PR/leaders.

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
11 years ago

Although Mrs. Price’s English is excellent, she is relatively new to this country. I expect Mr. Price is her primary “cultural informant.” In other words, she hasn’t had a lot of time to figure out there’s more to understand about the MRM than whatever he is feeding her. I’m kind of surprised that Tod didn’t pick up on this aspect of their relationship, which he paints such a pretty picture of. But then again, he was perhaps protecting her privacy because she was not the primary subject of the story.

Or maybe she speaks excellent English because something like 97% of Latvians speak two languages, and maybe she’s doesn’t need a ‘cultural informant’ because most Latvian media is American. Maybe she’s not just a dumb foreigner looking for a green card after all!

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

I can detect an attempted derailment from hundreds of light years off.

The irony! It burns!

pecunium
11 years ago

What do you think of the suffragettes sawing down telegraph masts between London and Glasgow? Villains for destroying a fine example of British engineering?

In the wrong for destroying infrastructure. Less culpable for it being replaceable.

I answer *some* questions but my troll sensors are super-high-tech. I can detect an attempted derailment from hundreds of light years off.

From all the practice you’ve had derailing.

You don’t actually answer questions, you respond with a heaving of goalposts; while deepsixing the topics you either don’t want to, or can’t properly address.

pecunium
11 years ago

Damn it, the Blockquote Monster hates me today. I think it may be unhappy with the quality of quotation it’s getting.

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