Categories
a voice for men are these guys 12 years old? johntheother lying liars misogyny MRA

The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM — especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

1.9K Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

I feel like the MRM is the last place I’d want to send a male rape victim who was looking for support.

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
11 years ago

She’s from Latvia?! Oh man. I preferred it when my country was known for vodka and people never having heard of us. Stoopid EU expansion. Now it’s all stag parties and objectification of women. *kicks things*

Keith
Keith
11 years ago

@ Athywren
Really?
For how long?
For how much longer?
Or is she just a “proper” feminist who thinks that women should be allowed to vote, but expecting to be treated like humans is going too far with it?

I have a feeling there is no wife but then again the interviewer supposedly spoke to her and her name is Michelle Price. Why wasn’t she interviewed more thoroughly by The Daily Beast? I mean it does seem rather odd that an MRA is married to a Feminist. Why does she keep so low key? I have never seen any articles on the web written by Price’s wife . If Price really has a wife wouldn’t it be logical he would have her write a guest post on The Spearhead. Perhaps now that it was “outed” that Price has supposedly has a feminist wife, she will be more of a presence on some blogs. I just have a hard time believeing anything that Price says as truth.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Fathers for Justice is, without a doubt, a men’s rights organisation.

cloudiah
11 years ago

Man, I missed the post from Mr. He-Man Woman-Hater Hisself! I wanted to know why it was so bad for Paul Elam to go on 20/20, but totally fine for WTF Price to go on the Daily Beast.

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
11 years ago

Fathers for Justice is, without a doubt, a men’s rights organisation.

Who think that getting arrested doing stupid publicity stunts, posting malicious lies in newspapers, scaremongering instead of providing advice and plotting to kidnap children is the correct way to go about getting to see their children. Yep, they’re MRAs alright.

cloudiah
11 years ago

Defacing paintings representing a country’s cultural heritage — how does that help men, exactly?

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Think about them what you like I but they founded FNF.

ceebarks
ceebarks
11 years ago

@estow: I see what you are saying.

On the other hand, there are plenty of feminists who will blast women who say “well I’m not a feminist BUT I believe women should have equal rights before the law/birth control should be readily accessible/women should have educations and careers if they want them/insert whatever other feminist issue here” because they are enjoying all the hardwon gains of feminism, while distancing themselves from the label ’cause it’s unfashionable.

Bill’s wife seems to be aware of the fact that a lot of people see that as hypocritical. It is!

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Funded, not founded. Sorry, typo.

katz
11 years ago

Keith, I don’t think it’s necessary to doubt her identity. Yes, it’s very tempting when she shows up and says her husband is in the top ten percent and then her husband shows up right after to swear that it’s really her, but really we have no reason to think it isn’t her and it doesn’t help much.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Well, I suppose they occasionally provide bored news crews with momentary entertainment? The words “angry clown” do rather come to mind.

pecunium
11 years ago

Wow… Dean Esmay shows that he understands the actual concept of Patriarchy, and uses that understanding to describe feminism.

http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2013/10/20/take-two-red-pills-call-me-in-the-morning-the-sudden-and-surprising-rise-of-the-mens-rights-movement#comment-639099

ahostileworld
11 years ago

@ auggziliary It’s not a harmful organisation. The ‘if’ in your sentence is key. And if you think dressing up as Spiderman to draw attention to your organisation and your political goals is nothing more than a silly stunt, then what does this say about the slut walks, ‘walk a mile in her shoes’ and related forms of ‘activism’?

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
11 years ago

@ahostileworld

I was talking more about defacing art and suchlike.

No word on the attempted kidnapping, attempting to publish lies in the media (the adverts were removed after the ASA found them to be misleading) or not actually helping men at all since they’re too busy scaremongering?

I think the point about the planning-to-be-arrested is this: what is the single worst way to convince a judge that you can provide a safe, secure and stable home life to your children?

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Well, I’ll interpret their mischaracterisations of FFJ as charitably as possibly and just say that they are mistaken.

The slut walks may be motivated by noble intentions, similar to the guy in the Spiderman costume. But intentions alone do not amount to anything. What have they *accomplished*? If you are going to characterise FFJ activism as pointless stunts, then what is stopping you from making similar statements about the slut walks.

FFJ is part of the MRM because they are a men’s advocacy group.

pecunium
11 years ago

Well, I’ll interpret their mischaracterisations of FFJ as charitably as possibly and just say that they are mistaken.

Convenient that. Crimes, lies and attempts to destroy irreplaceable artworks = “mistaken”.

But any ‘errors’ on the part of feminists and it’s Katy bar the door; hold their feet to the fire forever.

Even if those, “errors” are falsehoods on the part of the accusers.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Interesting. A human rights advocate defaces a portrait of a notorious reactionary parasite and kleptocrate, and all of a sudden, you turn all conservative and traditionalist and bloviate about how the guy defaced a piece of ‘British Cultural Heritage ™. Wow, you’re really fighting for the feminist cause here, aren’t you? The same monarchy that had suffragettes rounded up and beaten up under queen Victoria has now found itself a very interesting bedfellow.

Newsflash: no human rights movement has ever gained traction when it was not willing to make a noise and break some stuff. I do not lament the loss of a piece of tasteless, monarchist kitsch, especially if the defacement improved the work if anything.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

@ auggziliary – I’d have to answer yes slash haven’t seen any evidence to suggest it was more than a stunt.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Kleptocrate = person who steals crates?

(This dude is so boring that I’ve been reduced to grammar snarking.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

I suppose it could also be a crate that steals people, like an even more homicidal version of The Luggage.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Typo does not equal grammar does not equal spelling, Einstein.

Keith
Keith
11 years ago

@Katz
Keith, I don’t think it’s necessary to doubt her identity. Yes, it’s very tempting when she shows up and says her husband is in the top ten percent and then her husband shows up right after to swear that it’s really her, but really we have no reason to think it isn’t her and it doesn’t help much.

You have a point Katz. Price is probably telling the truth about his feminist wife and she was supposedly interviewd. I just cannot fathom how she as a Feminist can be married to such a hatreful misogynist and Price is just a hateful person in general. The only thing I can think of is perhaps there was some commonality in that they both are interested in gender and gender politics although on opposite sides. Sort of like that Mary Matalin and James Carville type of “opposites attract” relationship. But I still have a hard time believing Price on this because how could his wife Michelle not see all the vitriolic racism, ati semitism, homophobia and of course misogyny on many of the comments on The Spearhead.

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
11 years ago

I’m going to just blockquote myself here since I cba typing it again.

No word on the attempted kidnapping, attempting to publish lies in the media (the adverts were removed after the ASA found them to be misleading) or not actually helping men at all since they’re too busy scaremongering?

I think the point about the planning-to-be-arrested is this: what is the single worst way to convince a judge that you can provide a safe, secure and stable home life to your children?

I’m actually not that bothered about defacing a portrait of the queen; I was only pointing out that you and other people were talking about different things (i.e. dressing up as Spiderman and sitting on a roof vs defacing art).

So answer my questions please?

pecunium
11 years ago

hostile: Interesting that you assume the defense of an artwork must be based on what I think of the subject, not the artwork.

Interesting that you pretend to know what I thought of the work before it was defaced.

You aren’t much better acquainted with logic than you are with integrity, are you?

1 13 14 15 16 17 75