Categories
a voice for men a woman is always to blame abortion advocacy of violence antifeminism domestic violence evil sexy ladies evil women harassment hate men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA not-quite-explicit threats not-quite-plausible deniability paul elam playing the victim rape rape culture taking pleasure in women's pain terrorism

Paul Elam of A Voice for Men: In His Own Words

Paul Elam on 20/20
Paul Elam in a web-only clip from the 20/20 segment that never ran on television.

Paul Elam, the founder and primary animating force behind the website A Voice for Men, is probably, for better or worse, the most influential figure in the Men’s Rights movement (or, as he prefers to call it, the Men’s Human Rights Movement).

Elam is also a fierce misogynist with a penchant for angry, violent rhetoric full of only-slightly veiled threats. But don’t take my word for it. Perhaps the best way to get to know Mr. Elam is through his own words.

So here are some of Elam’s thoughts on a variety of issues, taken from postings on his own website.  I have linked each quote back to its source on A Voice for Men.

Paul Elam on Domestic Violence

In the name of equality and fairness, I am proclaiming October to be Bash a Violent Bitch Month.

I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.

And then make them clean up the mess. …

Now, am I serious about this?

No. Not because it’s wrong. It’s not wrong. Every one should have the right to defend themselves. …

But it isn’t worth the time behind bars or the abuse of anger management training that men must endure if they are uppity enough to defend themselves from female attackers.

Here, courtesy of the Wayback Machine, is the post as it originally appeared on A Voice for Men in 2010, where it was illustrated with a picture of a woman with a black eye, captioned “Maybe she DID have it coming.”

Elam now says this was “satire,” though its hard to see how it is “satire” when he clearly says that he doesn’t think his allegedly “satirical” solution is wrong. When Swift wrote his Modest Proposal he didn’t think that eating babies was actually a good thing; if so, it would not have been a satire.

Paul Elam on Rape

I have ideas about women who spend evenings in bars hustling men for drinks, playing on their sexual desires … And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m.. Sometimes both of these women end up being the “victims” of rape.

But are these women asking to get raped?

In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.

They are freaking begging for it.

Damn near demanding it.

And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.

Elam, apparently trying to project a more respectable image, has replaced the original A Voice for Men post containing these passages with a disingenuous disclaimer. But the Internet never forgets. An archived copy of the original post can be found through the Wayback Machine here. The quote is not any better in context.

Paul Elam on Why He Would Vote to Acquit All Rapists

Elam feels that courts are “patently untrustworthy when it comes to the offense of rape” and so, he explained in one post:

Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.

Original post here.

Paul Elam Explains How the Thought of Harming His Critics Sexually Arouses Him

No, I’m not making this up. Here are the strange, threatening remarks he addressed to an opponent of his Register-Her website (on which, more below).

Do you think I am going to stop?

It’s a serious question, because the answer to that question … should inform you of what will work for you or not work for you in dealing with me.

And the answer is, of course, no, I am not going to stop. You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.

Original post here.

Paul Elam on the Necessity of “Inflicting Pain” on Opponents

Progress for men will not be gained by debate, reason or typical channels of grievance available to segments of the population that the world actually gives a damn about. The progress we need will only be realized by inflicting enough pain on the agents of hate, in public view, that it literally shocks society out of its current coma.

You can see this quote in context here.

Paul Elam, the World’s Strangest “Pacifist”

From a post on family courts:

I am a pacifist. I do not advocate violence. But I tell you this. The day I see one of these absolutely incredulous excuses for a judge dragged out of his courtroom into the street, beaten mercilessly, doused with gasoline and set afire by a father who just won’t take another moment of injustice, I will be the first to put on the pages of this website that what happened was a minor tragedy that pales by far in comparison to the systematic brutality and thuggery inflicted daily on American fathers by those courts and their police henchmen.

It would not even so much be a tragedy as the chickens coming home to roost.

You can see the comment in context here.

Paul Elam on Mothers’ Day

To all you mothers of the world, please give your Mother’s Day flowers and give them all generously. Most importantly, give them where they will do the most good. Place a bunch of daffodils at a dumpster near you, perhaps one in which one of you, or one of your kind, has tossed an unwanted baby, leaving it there to slowly die alone in a pile of trash.

Perhaps you could lay a single rose at the base of a bridge that has been used by a mother to throw her baby into an icy river. Perhaps you can lay it there with hands that have beaten or shaken a baby to death. …

Inspired? Good. Now perhaps some of you could place large, colorful arrangements at the abortion centers where women go to have children cut out and laid to rest in those colorful and attractive biohazard containers that are all the rage in the clinics.

He continues on in this vein for some time before getting to this:

This is not a request for some mothers, or a percentage of them, but all of you. In fact, you don’t even have to be a mother. If you have a vagina, the blood of all those children, who are abused far more at the hands of women than men, has stained your skin and caked around the cuticles of your fingers.

And he continues on for several more paragraphs of abuse, until this:

In Daffodils for Dumpsters the gash gets you in, and you don’t really have a choice.

After several more paragraphs of this he makes clear that this time he’s not even claiming he’s writing satire:

Now, do I really mean all this? Yes.

You can read the whole remarkable thing here. He also wrote a similarly unhinged post about Valentines Day, which I wrote about here.

Now, Elam not only says many terrible things; he also does terrible things. Here are a few posts detailing some of these things.

Here’s a post about his website Register-Her, a fake “offenders registry” where feminist writers and activists are vilified alongside female murderers and child abusers, and threatened with the exposure of their personal information, in an attempt to silence them.

Here’s a post about A Voice for Men’s glorification of Thomas Ball, a disturbed man and self-admitted child abuser who set himself on fire on the steps of a courthouse in hopes that his death would inspire Men’s Rights activists to launch a campaign of firebombing attacks against courthouses and police stations.

Despite Elam’s claims of non-violence, A Voice for Men published Ball’s long terrorist manifesto — including his calls for firebombing — on its website, in its “activism” section. It was only after the Boston Marathon bombings that AVFM finally took the manifesto down.

Here’s a post about the time Paul Elam (along with a ragtag team of online misogynists and white supremacists) viciously attacked a young woman as an anti-male, anti-white bigot, resulting in threats directed at her and at her alma mater, Georgetown University. As it turned out, all the attacks on her, from Elam and other, were based on bogus information — as Elam would have known if he had taken ten minutes to fact check his sources.

These quotes, and these articles, are really only the tip of the iceberg. I invite anyone interested in finding out more about what Paul Elam believes to look through my archives at some of my other posts about him, and about A Voice for Men more generally.

578 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
cloudiah
11 years ago

I am a fair and just person.

See, people who actually are fair and just people never say things like this. If you have to try to convince people that you’re a decent person, chances are it’s because they’re pretty sure you’re not.

And why should David want to debate some anonymous troll from the Internet? LOL.

cloudiah
11 years ago

Ally, you ninja! Even down to the lol… XD

Scary Loot (@AaronMDellutri)

@Dan | October 19, 2013 at 12:58 pm

Based on logic of Mr. Futrelle, men who flash their money, tell a woman how much money he earns, and uses his financial influence to attract women are asking to be used up financially.

You have that exactly backwards. According to the logic of Mr. Elam, such actions on the part of women would be “understandable”, just as in Mr. Elam’s view it is “understandable” if women who are sexy in bars are raped. According to Mr. Futrelle, neither action is “understandable” or acceptable.

Viscaria
Viscaria
11 years ago

Like I said in another post on this site. I am a fair and just person.

Oh. You sound like a misogynistic douchecanoe, but I guess if you said you’re a fair and just person we should probably take your word for it. 9_9

Viscaria
Viscaria
11 years ago

I’m sorry. That’s the second time I’ve logged in with a “.con” address accidentally. It must be auto-completing on my phone now. Anyway a) that Viscaria was me and b) you ninjas have ninja’ed your way into my heart <3

katz
11 years ago

I am willing to have a clean debate with you. I am willing to debate you on blogtalk radio, terrestrial radio, on TV, or in person.

The “I’m willing to debate you” is one of those lines I would have thought was really ballsy when I was a teenager, but now I just find it bemusing, like why would you assume that someone wants to spend two hours talking to a frothing idiot in a setting that implies that their opinions are equally valid?

(Psych, I know that’s not what they assume. They know that they’re going to be rejected and just want to crow about how you’re a coward who’s afraid of them. Same as when PAN sends letters to the queen.)

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

Oh man, I saw the perfect gifset for this on Tumblr yesterday, so here’s a pretty reasonable response to Dan.

Dan
Dan
11 years ago

Weak tactics. That crap does not work on me. People in pain will scream. Attention seekers will scream for attention. ABC was smart for not airing a show that was meant to bash men seeking fairness, because the majority of people in this country who pay their fair share, work hard for their money, and take the steps to avoid drama agree with the ideas that Paul speak about.

Tommy Sotomayor went from being a typical video poster on youtube to a person who makes more than enough money to support himself and his kid. That’s right. People are willing to support others who go against laws that oppress others.

Dan
Dan
11 years ago

@ Ally.

Please show me where I blamed victims?

katz
11 years ago

*snrk*

Because there’s nothing we associate Paul Elam with so much as “taking steps to avoid drama.”

dustydeste
dustydeste
11 years ago

Dan, I think you have a reading comprehension problem: Namely, “postponed” is not a synonym of “cancelled.” Also, “handful of douchebags on the internet” is not the equivalent of any kind of majority in this country, unless we’re headed for tautology-land here.

It’s pretty sad that you misguidedly wear your douchebaggery and all-but-criminal misunderstanding of oppression like a badge of pride, but that doesn’t mean anyone has to take asshats like you seriously.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Oh, again? I’m beginning to enjoy Dan. But maybe that’ she ause my other option currently is fighting with Vista.

Very mature. Take Paul’s words out of context. Last time I checked, rape is a felony and it will cause a man or woman to have a felony record, a life time membership to the sex offender’s club, and time spent behind bars. So please show me where Paul advocating men to ruin their lives.

Go click the link, it’s never any better in context. Cuz see, they aren’t going to ruin their lives because good old Paul would never vote to convict, no matter how sure he was that the guy had committed rape. Which I told you yesterday, when you said that women get lesser punishment, so which is it? This happens whether a man or woman is the rapist, or only if it’s a man?

Based on logic of Mr. Futrelle, men who flash their money, tell a woman how much money he earns, and uses his financial influence to attract women are asking to be used up financially.

Uh, I think you have Elam and Futrelle confused. The former is the one who said that women are begging to be raped, the latter is the one who called bullshit on this. So nope, that doesn’t follow from David’s logic, but it does follow from Paul’s. Real advocate for men he is.

Like I said in another post on this site. I am a fair and just person. Just like women shouldn’t come off as sluts in order to get what they want out of a man and risk being raped; men should not come off as a charity foundation and then complain about being take advantage of.

And like I said then, if you think the MRM is for fairness, no, you aren’t. As for the rest of that, what the fuck? No, really, what the fuck? I’m gonna assume I’m responding to MRM talking points here.

Women coming off as sluts — is basically whatever the MRM declares a slut to be today. Frequently includes the sort of thing most women wear in clubs, which they then assume the women are wearing solely to get men to buy them drinks. Like the men in question can’t just ignore them. As for “risking being raped”…well, that’ she case if she does X, or not-X, or I told you all this last night. But as an example — don’t go out alone, don’t have a man in your apartment, don’t trust men gets you labelled paranoid, or, by the MRM, a misandrist.

Men coming off as a charity foundation — uh, what? Buying drinks is a charity foundation now? I’m not even sure what you’re complaining about here, besides to say that it doesn’t jive with your pro-MRM stance from last night.

Men need to stop buying random women drinks at the bar, stop spending money on women unless the women are having sex with them, and to stop acting like tricks.

Oh, that’s what you meant. Believe it or not, some men but women things like dinner and drinks without expecting sex. And don’t do this unless she’s having sex with him, but stop acting like tricks? So he should be explicitly buying sex, but that’s not acting like a trick? I don’t even…

I can only hope you meant that he shouldn’t be buying her stuff unless they’re in a relationship. Which is something that you’re welcome to think, though others may disagree and that’s their choice. But you aren’t going to find many feminists saying that he has to buy her stuff. One’s who appreciate the gesture, sure, ones who think that the cost of a meal should be split by income // ability to pay, or covered by the person who arranged the date, quite possibly, but ones who think he should always pay just because he’s the guy? Nope, not a feminist thing.

Women need to stop using their bodies to taunt men.

See, that’s equality. However, I seriously doubt posters on here will see it as such since I called out both sides.

That’s equal judgement and bullshit that has fuck all to do with actual feminist views. You’re fighting a straw-feminist, which is con so common of MRAs.

Come on out Mr. Futrelle. I am willing to have a clean debate with you. I am willing to debate you on blogtalk radio, terrestrial radio, on TV, or in person.

You act like he’s in hiding or something, and like you aren’t just some no name newb who thinks he’s the first person to say all this. You aren’t. Why in the world would anyone waste an hour+ debating the same shit we’ve debating hundreds of times already?

I am not like Paul. I will use logic. Don’t be scared kitten. I won’t keep you on your back too long.

Well, not being like Paul is a start, he’s a royal asshole. As for using logic…well, sorta, but your conclusions need serious work and far less strawman’ing. Love how you act like you’d be the victor and have to cut David slack when you haven’t replied to anything anyone’s said to you here. You think you’d do better without time to think about your response.

And don’t call people kitten, it’s demeaning and, as it’s usually used to either insult a woman, or insult a man by comparing him to a woman, misogynistic.

——

Autocorrect thinks “that’s equal” should be “that’ sexual” and that “that’s what” should be “that’ sweat”.

Oh and Dan? You’re going to love it if pecunium responds to you.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“That’s because” = “that’ she ause”

Fucking autocorrect.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“because the majority of people in this country who pay their fair share, work hard for their money, and take the steps to avoid drama agree with the ideas that Paul speak about.”

You mean that women are begging to be raped and that you should never vote to convict a rapist? Or that firebombing courthouses is activism?

Cuz no, they really don’t.

Ally S
11 years ago

Please show me where I blamed victims?

Do you even read the shit you type out?

Dan
Dan
11 years ago

What problems do you people have with only biological fathers being obligated to pay child support?

What problems do you have with people who file false rape charges being prosecuted? Don’t give me the crap about how it cost too much money to prosecute these people.

If the courts want to put a man on child support, then it is up to the court system to make sure they have the right man. Why should a man who never even had sex with a chick be forced to pay child support, just because a woman put his name down on a piece of paper?

When answering these questions, be ethical.

Dan
Dan
11 years ago

Yep, do you?

Dan
Dan
11 years ago

Argeneti (spelling)

Please post news articles that prove what you said.

Rantings from lunatics on Reddit doesn’t count as proof.

I haven’t heard of Paul or Tommy encouraging men to commit violent acts.

marinerachel
marinerachel
11 years ago

Arrests following rape accusations rarely happen. Convictions happen far, far less. Innocents aren’t being convicted of rape. Lots of people guilty of rape never face any legal repercussions though. Good news for rapists all around, really.

So, false rape accusations aren’t actually resulting in harm. That’s a myth. It should be a punishable offense when it occurs but the notion it’s a problem equivalent to rape is fucking absurd.

And if you don’t want to pay child support for a kid that’s yours, you establish that with the person you’re risking having a child with ahead of time or you don’t have sex.

For the record, my man and I agreed, if we conceive, I’ll solely support the child to enable him to finish medical school, after which point he can participate financially.

marinerachel
marinerachel
11 years ago

You don’t read, do you? A cursory search of this blog will provide you with endless links to examples of Paul Elam advocating violence.

katz
11 years ago

Dan, you seem to think that the way this conversation works is that you post assertions, the assertions are assumed to be true until we make arguments as to why those assertions are wrong, and then it’s our job to provide sources (which, for some reason, have to be news articles) to disprove your assertions to your own satisfaction.

That’s…not how actual conversations work.

cloudiah
11 years ago

Dan, you seem to think that the way this conversation works is that you post assertions, the assertions are assumed to be true until we make arguments as to why those assertions are wrong, and then it’s our job to provide sources (which, for some reason, have to be news articles) to disprove your assertions to your own satisfaction.

Which could make for an entertaining “debate” — I suspect my cats could more than hold their own against Dan.

cloudiah
11 years ago

Or wait, could we have Falconer’s babies debate Dan? That would be awesome.

Dan
Dan
11 years ago

@marinerachel

I never said that biological fathers should not pay child support. Please show me where I said that. If I did, it was a typo. I am pro child support just as long as the biological parent is paying it.

False rape claims don’t hurt anyone. Ask Brian Banks. The only reason why he was able to move on was because he landed a Pro Football contract.

I was accused of rape a couple of years ago, but I was aggressive with the detectives who interviewed me, I accused the female detective of raping me, just because I was being accused of a rape that didn’t have my DNA in a rape kit. No semen, no skin under the so called victim’s nails, or no proof I was anywhere around. I cussed out both detectives, threatened to sue the police department, the city, DA’s office, and the detectives. However, most guys (especially young Black men) fear the police. That is why they just take plea deals even if they are innocent.

Now once again, post news articles where men that were involved with MRA groups actually committed violent acts towards women, court buildings, or etc.

Hell, I will throw you a bone.

The Pittsburgh, PA LA Fitness shooter( George Sodini) was not tied to any MRA online groups like a few wack jobs on Youtube claimed. The shooter had Aspergers syndrome just like the sick man boy who shot up an elementry school late last year.

The wack job who shot Asia McGowan back in 2009 was accused of being a member of Blackmenvent. He wasn’t. The guy was mentally ill, would not take his meds, and was obsessed with Asia. He did not track her down and stalk her. They went to the same school.

So, go ahead and post some articles where men from MRM or MRA sites have committed violent acts. Talking about shit online doesn’t mean a damn thing. I am not talking about Keyboard commandos. I am talking about guys who actually committed violent acts in the name of MRM.

Dan
Dan
11 years ago

@ cloudia

Anyone can post sick and twisted shit they want to do. For all I know, you people could be posting under sock accounts on sites like Reddit in order to discredit the MRM. The thing is, anyone can post anonymous. That is why I asked for news articles that show these men committing violent acts in the name of MRM.

Heck, show me a video of a guy showing his face threatening violence towards women in the name of MRM.