So Amanda Marcotte has some thoughts on Sunshine Mary’s post about feminism allegedly reducing women to nothing more than sex objects:
Why should women want the attention of men who see them as nothing more than unpaid servants and semen toilets? …
The alternative to having a hateful misogynist around who expects you to clean up after him, accept his ranting about how women are a repulsive subhuman class whose only purpose is service to men, and to masturbate him without any hope of sexual pleasure yourself is simple: Not being with such a man. As many feminists can tell you, there’s a really pleasant alternative: Men who like women and like to hang out with us and aren’t just tolerating us in exchange for sex and housework.
But what if, as manosphere men (and antifeminist women like Sunshine Mary) like to gloat, you can’t find a man?
Being alone is better than being with a man who thinks you’re part of a degraded class put here to serve him. No matter how much misogynists may rant, they can’t get around this inherent problem in their philosophy, which is that “alone” is always a superior alternative to their company.
Sunshine Mary has responded with a post that basically argues, well, but men don’t like you, you fat slutty feminists — take that!
One of the core pillars of feminism seems to be trying to control how men think about women. We want to be seen as smart, so by fiat order we’ll command men to see us as equally intelligent. We want to be seen as having the ability to be sexually promiscuous, so we’ll command men to hold a positive opinion of sluttery. We want to be seen as beautiful at 200 pounds, so we’ll command men to find us hot despite our obesity.
But it doesn’t work. Men don’t like slutty women for anything other than sex, as the last comment thread here rather conclusively proved. Men don’t find fat women attractive. Men don’t like bitchy, loud-mouthed mannish feminists. Men don’t care about women’s supposed careers. All the commands in the world will only cause men to keep their opinions quiet, but it does not change those opinions. All the attempts in the world at resocializing men to like what feminism has turned women into will always fail because it works against the natural order of things.
Now this is just nonsensical and, you know, not true for all but a backwards and rather assholish subset of men. But it’s what follows that’s really chilling — not chilling because it reflects reality, but chilling because it suggests how punitive and self-hating Sunshine Mary’s philosophy really is.
She argues that feminists find the Manosphere “scary” because manosphere misogynists won’t do what feminists want them to do.
It is scary to imagine that men will stop doing what they are told by women to do. It is scary to feminists in particular because, instead of being dependent on one man like I am, they are dependent on men as a group to fund them.
Men pay the majority of taxes in the United States. Without men’s taxes, student financial aid for Women’s Studies degrees will dry up. Without men’s taxes, baby mamas will starve. Without men financing it, women who are being placed into corporate leadership simply as a response to affirmative action and who then quit these jobs after a year to write tear-filled articles in the Atlantic about work-life balance, demanding even more subsidies from men to ensure that women never need to suffer the consequences for their stupid choices, will cease. I only have to manage my husband’s opinion of me in order to secure his provisioning; feminists have to control all men’s opinions of them in order to secure their provisioning.
Yep, that’s right. Sunshine Mary believes that women are incapable of taking care of themselves and so must depend, essentially, on appeasing men in order to survive. She thinks she’s lucky because she only has to appease one man, while women who actually, you know, earn a living have to appease all men. Because they’re not really earning a living. They’re just playing at earning a living because the men of the world are nice enough to humor them.
But don’t make the men mad, Sunshine Mary warns, because then you’re screwed!
And she seems rather pleased that she can make this threat from what she percieves as her position of relative security.
How fucked up is that?
@susanbotchie
Okay, I was just sticking to lurking until I saw the troll. Oh, boy, a troll, a troll! 😀 (what can I say I’m bored.) Also, by ‘created more strife between the sexes’ do you mean ‘now those poor baby men have to hear when they’re being shitty instead of everyone shutting up and acting like problems don’t exist?’*
*don’t know if that ever happened, going by faux-50s memories, or which seems to be the default ‘good’ period for a lot of sexists.
@brooked
Elderslut sounds like some kind of title. How does one earn it?
Yay, cassandra says answered it! 😀
@viscaria
🙁 Hope you feel better soon. ::offers interweb hugs::
This thread is too awesome XD
@sunshinemary
Good lord. Citation desperately needed. I may not like her much, but I’d like to see you try to tell that to my stepmom, who took three jobs to support herself through college. Heck, or to my mom, who’s supporting herself (and me/ sister) just fine.
And posting this before wordpress eats my comments! 😀
I’m afraid you’re a bit too young yet. On the other hand, old tarts who are also old farts like me … Win!
Though I dearly want to know the qualifications for Slut Emeritus. Where do I apply?
I expect being a Slut Emeritus involves having discharged your slutly duties, dismounted the cock carousel, and retired to a life of kitties and diminished sluttitude? But I could be wrong; I am not yet wise in the ways of the Sisterhood.
@mildlymagnificent
I am envious 😛
Dang. ^that was Marie, wordpress just switched my name 🙁
This Sunshine Mary person is nuts.
@auggz
I’ll go with yes :3
@Illyria
… Can we not do the ableism right now? (or ever.) Just because she’s hateful doesn’t mean she’s nuts :/
Illyria: welcome, and please don’t use slurs for mentally ill, when a whole bunch of other words will do.
Pecunium — gonna assume you meant either 31 and reversed it, or 23 and hit the 1, cuz 13 makes no sense in context. And you’ve seen the difference in my case, though that photo is about ten pounds off my heaviest (and I keep forgetting to send you the other end, perhaps later tonight I’ll get to it)
13 was my percentile.
Oooooh. That makes sense!
Huh, apparently by American standards I’m less than that. But this is so very of topic and I already emailed you similar, so maybe we should take it there?
I posted asking why they were taxing my paycheck since only men pay taxes. So response
I majored in anthropology and Jewish Studies. The Jewish Studies bit is basically majoring in the writings of old dead men of various races.
Absolutely. I was the main breadwinner from 2001-11. My wife then worked out that if she went back to work full time, she’d earn more than me from the start, and would have much greater potential for earning even more (conversely, my salary had been frozen for years with no sign of a thaw).
Did I reply “Hell, no – you’re a woman and it’s your job to raise the kids, and the only reason I let you work part time is because we’ve got to make back the money I fritter away on booze and loose women”? I did not – instead, I quit my job, started working from home (so I could combine this with childcare) and we’ve never looked back – and I don’t think our marriage has ever been more granitically solid than it is right now.
And yet, according to Sunshinemary, we must be doing something terribly, terribly wrong.
Brooked: Wow. So she’s afraid, but she’s not sure what she’s afraid of, so instead of processing that, she projects it as a universal condition of women everywhere? I am now going to put down the pipe, strip off the fake beard and step away from the analyst couch, because, well, that really lends itself to armchair psychologizing (I just made up a word! Yay! I need sleep).
I feel this strange mix of pity and revulsion.
@CassandraSays
Well said.
Some dude in these comments wrote:
What has body hair have to do with being a man? In case you didn’t know, women are actually human, and therefore have hair on our bodies too. However, we get shamed for being human, and are therefore forced into removing it. Failure to comply results in alienation from society and loss of employment. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Enjoy your male privilege.
Bwahahahaha!
I would like to nominate katz for some sort of prize for that one.
mildlymagnificent:
I’m gonna think of that every time I get coffee at Southside Tarts now. 😀
Katz definitely gets a prize for that. Not sure what, but it’s bound to involve kitties and bonbons.
Sparky – there’s psychologizing and there’s psychoLOLogising, frequently applicable with MRAs.
Wasn’t original to me. I heard that line ages ago and have been waiting this whole time for an appropriate context to appear.
Lines like that need to be repeated! 😀
Its true. Only one statistics will suffice to proof. Marriage rate plummets since the 60s (sexual liberation or women becomes promiscuous). In other parts of the world, the phenomena started later, 1980s in Asia, 2000s in China.
No offense but if women follows the feminist that tells them to shun men for judging their sexual behaviour. Its practically down the road of no marriage. Less than 45pc of people ages 15-40 are married and getting less and less with prevalent divorce. Wake up girls. None of it is like the movies or sex in the city (mind u those ctresses are either nit narried or divorced). Guys have an idea of a wive. And thats why we refuse marriage. We have been evolutionary evolved to look for “good” woman for millions of years. But cause of the sexual liberation in the last 50 years, that model good partner and housewife is becoming a ghost. Im all for women being economically productive, just not the sex and the city persona.
Anonmale, has the thought ever crossed your tiny mind that maybe women don’t want to be your ‘wive’ and are perfectly happy as they are and that’s OK?
What am I saying. Of course you haven’t.
I’ve seen about thirty seconds of SATC in my whole life and utterly detested it, but the hatred that it provokes in the MRM for being about four women with careers and multiple sexual partners where everything works out OK for them makes me want to break out the box-set.