Our dear friend W.F. Price of The Spearhead celebrated Columbus Day yesterday with a post suggesting that “American girls” are too weak-minded to deserve college educations.
Price’s misogyny is nothing new, but what, you may wonder, is the connection to Columbus Day? Well, you see, Price ran across a column in the Daily Nebraskan by a female student named Shelby Fleig that was, well, rather critical of Mr. Columbus, pointing out, among other things, that he kidnapped and enslaved many of those he encountered in the Americas.
Fleig’s piece is a tad simplistic at times — at one point it says that when Columbus arrived in the Americas he encountered a “civilization close to 14,000 years old,” which is just plain wrong; there were people in the Americas around 14,000 years ago, but there were no civilizations anywhere on earth that far back. Still, the piece certainly reflects reality far more closely than anything you’ll find on The Spearhead on any given day.
To Price, though, the column is such an unpatriotic abomination that he considers it evidence that education is wasted on women. No, really.
Little Ms. Fleig certainly has it in for her forefathers, but is it really her fault? Probably not. She, like most other college girls, is simply parroting what’s been fed to her by her profs. Girls are good at that, which is why teachers like them so much — they’re easy.
If you’re the father of an American girl, is this really what you want your daughter to absorb over the course of four years? Does it add any value whatsoever to the family or to the nation?
I’m not sure what specifically Price is objecting to about Fleig’s account — aside from its mild profanity (the word “bullshit”) and its less-than-reverential tone towards an icon of American history. But he offers no rebuttal, perhaps because he really can’t. While Fleig may be a bit ahistorical in her judgment of Columbus, it’s a fact that he kidnapped and enslaved hundreds of natives and committed other atrocities. It’s a fact that he paved the way for conquest and genocide. History isn’t pretty.
But Price is only getting started, telling fathers of “American girls” that
Your money would be much better spent sending her to sewing or baking school. Let’s face it: Ms. Fleig isn’t going to discover the cure for cancer. Despite being an attractive young woman, she isn’t going to colonize Mars, either (at her size, she’d be too expensive to launch out of the Earth’s atmosphere).
Yep, he goes there. No manosphere screed is complete without a bit of gratuitous fat-shaming.
In all likelihood, the best she could hope for is a nonprofit or government job fully funded by her father’s and brother’s tax bills.
Because girls can’t handle real jobs. Because jobs at nonprofits or with the government aren’t real jobs. Because nonprofits are funded entirely by the government. And because only men pay taxes.
And yet she represents 60% of college students. What an enormous, unsustainable waste. It’s impolitic to point it out, but from a cost-benefit point of view, in most cases higher education is entirely wasted on women, and as in Ms. Fleig’s case is often counterproductive.
So that’s Price’s thoughtful and logical rebuttal to Fleig’s article: a post that addresses none of her arguments, posits the natural inferiority of women, and attacks her for her apparent weight.
Let’s see what the highly erudite Spearhead readers have to say about it in the comments.
Gender Foreigner suggests that women, born to obey, are simply obeying the wrong people:
Women don’t know how to think: they know how to obey. So, let’s tell them what to do. What they lack is MEN to obey instead of girls to obey. Barefoot, pregnant in the kitchen, obeying masculine will. As long as they do that they will feign civility.
Dire Badger, for his part, acknowledges that Columbus did a lot of terrible things, but argues that this doesn’t matter because reasons. He also uses profanity, though Price doesn’t step in to rebuke him for that.
[I]n the end, individual racial and cultural atrocities mean NOTHING the moment the last person that witnessed them dies…. but things like achievements in literature, art, science… the true immortality that keeps building as part of a cultural intellectual inheritance. The only meaning that such atrocities have is to teach us NOT TO DO THEM AGAIN. Anything else is beating the dead victim horse for no benefit whatsoever, and merely punishes the people that had NOTHING to do with the original atrocity.
In short, columbus opened up america for expansion. He sailed the ocean blue in a way that hadn’t been achieved for nearly 400 years since the vikings.
As for the rest? FUCK YOU. Get over it already, you pussy.
In a followup comment, he adds:
Columbus rediscovered America by a monumental navigational goofup… funny story… What he did afterwards doesn’t concern me except as an object lesson. I honor the accomplishment but have no reason to diminish it by sorrow over a bunch of people who would still be more than 400 years dead if Columbus had never existed.
Schlomo, meanwhile, is mad at Fleig for not blaming Columbus’ mom for the whole thing:
What irks me is that feminists constantly blame only men– and then mostly white men– for all evil in the world. They don’t look at women’s roles in raising boys to be exploiters; or in bedding “bad boys” (thus rewarding their brutality); or in serving as Nazi prison guards, etc.
White females helped run plantations in the Old South and ran them alone during the Civil War. Ergo, it’s a lie that gals are innately “better” than guys. After all, they became queens of men feminists now demonize… and sometimes were the evil-incarnate leaders of countries themselves.
Nowhere, of course, do feminists praise men for the creating the Magna Carta or washing machines or hi-fi systems. No kudos, either, for males who wiped out polio and provided potable water. Also, no credit for inventing penicillin or making cars safer. Always and everywhere feminists blame-blame-blame. You never hear them collectively apologize for THEIR shite, like their hysterical historical foresisters’ White Feather campaigns… or sleeping with the enemy.
Where is the condemnation of Sacagawea for helping Whitey conquer her “people”?
It’s like domestic violence: fembots never talk about the equal evil women do.
Wilson, meanwhile, decides that Fleig is the truly evil one, not Columbus, based on a bunch of TRUE FACTS about her he’s pulled from his own posterior:
Conquest through genocide is not actually immoral, since there is no “social contract” being violated, though the greed of it may be questionable. Fleig would support a genocide against whites, so she is in no position to judge anyway, and her motivations–spite, malice, nihilism, betrayal–are much more evil than Columbus’s straightforward and productive ambition
But Fleig does have one defender amongst the Spearhead regulars, a fella named Dragnet, who happily declares that “corn-fed” gals like her please his penis. No, really, that’s his argument.
Being from the Midwest myself, I find her buxom, corn-fed heft absolutely delightful. I have had more than a few liaisons with her similarly endowed Midwestern sisters–to this day my manhood rises in salute.
What I wouldn’t give for more women on the east coast to be built like Miss Fleig. There’s a well-built, fulsome hardiness to the women of the Midwest that you really don’t find out East. God bless them all.
Well, I’m glad these superior-brained, independent-minded men have put us all straight on these important historical issues.
Eh, fair enough, kitteh, I was just trying to reach out to someone who recently saw the MRM for what it is.
Hi Yoyo, I appreciated your comment on Spearhead. It’s fine not to like Man Boobz; it’s not everyone’s cup of hibiscus tea.
Yoyo, it’s fine if you don’t want to snark, but do you know where you are?*
The faint whiff of sanctimony isn’t so fine.
*I always feel like Axl Rose when posing that question.
No worries, Bob. 🙂
Argh that’s a scary image! Zip it, zip it!
Hi Bob Dole, I’m with you. I swear it’s the worst having to sift through pages of “ZOMG kittens”, it’s why I generally don’t come here.
I don’t see the manosphere as Men’s Rights Movement as much as Male Supremacy Movement, LOL. They’re reactionaries who want to return to some mythical good ol’ days. That said, and I showed this to Price, there are groups and people that are genuinely Men’s Rights Advocates. And look it was shouted down, and downvoted, LOL. Imagine that, Spearheaders down-voting people actually advocating for the stuff these Spearheaders supposedly ‘fight for.’
One person I think you would find interesting is Pelle Billing. While I don’t necessarily agree with him on everything, I think he would make a better voice for the MRA movement than the ‘manosphere.’ http://www.pellebilling.com/ He actually strikes me as level-headed, for one thing. I believe he’s written stuff for the Good Men Project as well.
It’s probably still in moderation, but I did post a lengthy reply to him. Of course I’m predicting that he’ll lash out at me about dragging his divorce in or something. Anyway, I basically told him that I understand he had a rough divorce, but that the past is the past, and he has to let it go, while proactively making things better for him from here on. He needs to accept that his divorce was rough on him and that it’s normal and okay to be upset, angry, etc etc, but it already happened, and he needs to accept the past, and use the past to create a better future. The past always leaves consequences that affect us in the present. He needs to accept that the past already happened, and deal with the consequences from it proactively and positively. I asked him what the Spearhead has done to make his life better, just what is it doing for him, and if he was happier. Of course I except the same angry, substanceless replies from him, however :/ Another thing I suggested was to take a break from the internet, find a relaxing place, and do some deep soul-searching, and maybe seek counseling. Again though, I don’t except much, at this point :/
I know it’s easy to think it, but I don’t think setting the time machine back in time is the answer to his, or the manosphere’s, problems.
You’re right, that fucking SUCKS. Total worst thing ever. Shove over, other issues.
I’d rather not go back to the Spearhead, LOL. My original intent was just to drop by, say what needs to be said, and be on my way. I have no desire to really engage these people in some debate :/ I only came back after realizing that Manboobzers were talking about my comment :/ I honestly don’t want to see Price’s response, since it probably won’t be much different, anyway.
I will say that since I’ve become more familiar with the more ‘feminist’ sphere, I’ve become more open-minded towards you guys. I used to see you guys as man-hating, misandrists, blah blah blah, crazy leftists, over-the-top tumblr social justice sallies, similar to the Duke group of 88 faculty during the Duke Lacrosse fiasco(look it up.) However, most of you guys actually seem to be normal, reasonable, HAPPY people. Most feminist blogs, while I don’t necessarily agree with everything, are by in large well-meaning and reasonable, and far less misandric than the ‘manosphere’ is misogynistic. I’d take hanging out with one of you guys over them anyday, LOL.
Again, there was a time when I was stuck in negativity and reactionary thought, and I self-enforced this by only reading the right-wing view on things. It is easy to get stuck in bitterness and anger, especially when you surround yourself with like-minded people. That’s why I empathized with WF Price. He blew up on me for mentioning his daughter(albeit, he was really paranoid in the way he interpreted my comment) but part of the reason he struck me attention is because he has a daughter, while saying the kind of stuff he does. His daughter is appearently ‘happy being a girl, thank you.’ And that warms my heart, happy kids are great. I just have no idea how he got the idea that I’m trying to force her into the marines, LOL.
And I’m still slightly shaking, LOL.
Yoyo – you’re right, Male Supremacy Movement is exactly what it is. I’m glad you’ve seen that, and how different feminists are from the MRA caricatures.
Do you read Feministe or Pharyngula? They are serious sites and much stricter about being on-topic; that might suit you better. If you do go there, Lurk before you Comment, and get a feel for them, because they can be a bit shark-poolish if an unknown quantity makes problematic statements.
But this is a mockery site, you know what it’s like, why are you complaining about kitten pics and so on? I really don’t get that.
“One thing I find relieving is how some MRAs tend to not apply their own view to their daughters. Like I know judge bitch got super pissed when 2 boys threatened to rape her young daughter, which I expected her to either brush it off(“boys will be boys” or “I’d be over reacting since rapists only ever behave like X”) or blame her daughter. She actually yelled at the boys and talked to their parents. She actually fought against rape culture.
I’m still afraid of some doing messed up stuff to their daughters, but it’s relieving to know that some don’t treat them like shit.”
Yeah, that’s what I saw about her. One thing I find ironic is that while she’s so pretentious about how feminine she is and lecturing women to be feminine, she’s one of the most mean-spirited bloggers I’ve come across and has a really ‘masculine’ writing style, LOL.
Well, looking at reactionary sites, apparently PZ Myers is some bad ‘liberal creationist’ aka he denies scientific stuff that goes against his liberal sensibilities LOLOL.
LOL don’t worry, I know this is Futrelle’s blog 😛
I think dissenters who snark on them only further enable them though. Witness what JB does do women commenters who are understandably offended by her blog 😛
One thing about JB is that, from the post about meeting her husband, it seems like she had low self esteem when she met him and he successfully negged her :/
We’re all so mean for not feeling compassion for the poor MRAs. Pack your bags, everyone, we’re going on a guilt trip!
Cassandra: will there be first class, or is it all coach and it’s my own damn fault?
Have you ever posted a cat video here in a thread that wasn’t specifically about cat videos? If so you have to fly in the cargo hold.
See you all in cargo class!
Snarking enables them? Nah, it pisses them off. They’re going to write their shit whether they get argued with seriously or laughed at. Stuffed if I’m going to engage with them (I’m not ever clicking on their sites). I’d rather point and laugh.
Or post cat videos.
Speaking of which, we’re overdue for a dose of Maru and Hana!
HA, cat videos.
I know, I shouldn’t give a shit, it’s just hard not to. Right now I’m fighting the urge to go back and look, even though I’d rather not. It’s just not worth the time. I guess, Like I said, you say what you have to say and be done with it.
One thing is I guess instead of snarking or arguing, I wish someone out there, maybe a trained psychologist, could get through. Frankly, I don’t care about the reactionary ideology as much as the deep seated anger and other issues. I don’t believe they should necessarily become liberal feminists, just that they should probably get some perspective, self-awareness, lose the paranoia, and just in general be more balanced, level-headed people, LOL.
About the pointing and laughing, though, yeah, every time I show this stuff to a friend in meatspace they point and laugh whether they’re liberal or conservative, LOL. “Wow that guys delusional.” And a conservative(albeit the mainstream type) said that 😛
I’m not sure Yoyo is trying to pull a guilt trip. I actually feel the same way zie does a lot of the time; I just also get very angry at the hate they’re spreading. But it’s very sad to me to see someone as miserable as most MRAs seem to be, even if they’re being vile because of it. Of course, I’ve been wrong before and I know I tend to be too trusting of new posters…
I like the snarking and off-topicness, of course. In fact, it’s why I comment here. 🙂
Yoyo, I hope you’ll continue to learn more about feminism. There are some feminists who hate men, but they’re the fringe radical feminists (and even most radfems don’t hate men). Most mainstream feminists I’ve met (both online and in real life) care about men and boys. We just believe that feminism helps them as well. Rigid gender roles cause a lot of pain for a lot of men/boys, and breaking them down will only result in more freedom for everyone to live the life they want. In addition, many of the problems men face (higher suicide rates being the big one that comes to mind) are a direct result of those rigid gender roles (in that case, a fear of expressing emotion or asking for help).
Being politically liberal isn’t required either (although I do think you pretty much have to be liberal on some social issues, like reproductive choice). My husband considers himself a feminist (and rightly so, IMO) and he tends to lean conservative on a lot of issues, and there are a ton of politically moderate feminists.
Er, sorry, I see I’ve missed some posts. I’m drinking wine and watching TV, maybe I should quit posting. 😉
Oh, we’re going on a guilt trip? Cuz I am so already there. My fucking psych sent the fucking form to the lawyer all mild or no impairment and that I’m just wary to work.
I, predictably, meltdown in pecunium’s inbox and what does he find? Meds psych from hell is of a very cult-ish and massively creepy Jews for Jesus type religion. Why was he looking? It’s on her CV and his partner thought meds psych sounded like it was all pray myself sane.
I’ve settled into being pissed after spending yesterday evening and most of today either shaking or crawling out of my skin on a guilt trip about what if she’s right, that’d mean I’m just trying to mooch off taxpayers and a lazy asshole and…etc.
Guilt trip, flying in the cargo hold, already there. (I’d go to the open thread, but this one has gone the way of random anyways)
“Even severe abuse victims who suffer from PTSD don’t have reactions anywhere near this.”
*waves* hi, don’t take my issues out on half the population!
Nor would I wish my psych on them.
Fuck, Argenti, you’ve copped another psych who should not be fuckingwell practising, who should be struck off or whatever it is they do to psychs!
Good for Pecunium and his partner spotting that, too.
And your brain-not-jerkbrain knows this, but NO you are not mooching and NO she is not right and FUCK HER SCUMBAG BULLSHITTERY.
Damn it to hell with this “oh noes taxpayers” bullshit people come out with. It’s bad enough here and it’s downright toxic in the US. What do people think taxes are for? Do they really think they’re all about lining politicians’ pockets or having a fucking ridiculously huge army? What is their problem with helping other people?
/rage
Certainly not paying the army, the shutdown has? had? (Seems this may be done) them on no pay. So padding pockets apparently. I have lots of thoughts on our army, but the only relevant one is that pecunium wasn’t sure how long they’d be sending checks to him, and thus the rest of the disabled veterans = pissed Argenti (one, you do not mess with my friends, two, thoughts on the military aside, they risked their damned lives, least we can do is send the damned disability checks)
Shit, we just had a mouthy drunk in the shop. My pulse is really up. He doesn’t know how close he was to getting the cops called on him.
Oh, right, that was not the topic. Sorry, I’m still scattered.
So, my psych. This is meds psych. Talk psych wise I’m on my third, and she’s proving tolerable. The first was good, but a sub while #2 was on maternity leave. Meds psych I had a lovely intern (who I totally would’ve asked out if that was appropriate [professionally, age wise we can’t be more than 2 years apart]), and now this waste of oxygen.
As for taxes in general, they don’t. That is, they don’t think they should be paying them. That if welfare queens and illegal immigrants and people “claiming” to be disabled would just get off their asses // stop breeding // go back where they came from they’d pay less taxes.
This is part of why universal healthcare managed to shutdown the government. I shouldn’t have to pay for anyone else is the American way.