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What Matt Forney’s “Case Against Female Self-Esteem” Reveals About His Own Deep Insecurities

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Matt Forney is desperate for attention; it’s as glaringly obvious as the giant MATT FORNEY that adorns the top of his blog, creatively named MATT FORNEY. And like some caricature of an emo teen “acting out,” the misogynistic manosphere blogger has decided that any attention — even bad attention — is better than no attention.

And so, perhaps at least dimly aware that his ideas are and his prose are both too lackluster to command much attention on their own, he seems to be trying to rile up as much of the internet as possible with posts that are deliberately designed to offend liberals and feminists and pretty much anyone who is not a woman-hating douchebag. He had a minor hit a this spring with a post entitled Why Fat Girls Don’t Deserve to Be Loved, which did in fact live up — that is, down — to its title.

Now he’s got an even bigger hit in a post titled The Case Against Female Self-Esteem.

Originally posted in mid-September — people have been sending me notes for weeks asking when I would be writing about it — the post has blown up in recent days, inspiring countless angry Tumblr posts and Tweets from feminists pissed off at its, er, argument. It’s even inspired some threats of violence from Feminists, which Forney seems to regard with glee, reposting them on Twitter alongside boasts about how much traffic his post has generated thus far — last count, 90,0000 views.

So what is there to say about the post itself? It’s already been ably dissected, line by line, by Stephanie Zvan at Almost Diamonds. Some of its more absurd assertions — 60, to be exact — have been highlighted in this post by Clara on That Girl Magazine. There’s nothing original about most of Forney’s argument; it’s merely a collection of misogynistic manosphere tropes arranged into an “argument” against female self-esteem that Forney clearly intends as a provocation.

But ironically this paean to female insecurity offers interesting insights into Forney’s own insecurities about women, and more broadly into the insecurities that seem to drive so much of the manosphere’s misogynistic rage. That makes it worth examining in some detail.

Forney starts out with the sort of confession that most men would save for their therapists, announcing his love of insecure women, and declaring:

Whenever a girl I’m talking to brags about how she’s “confident” and “strong,” I can feel my dick deflating like a punctured tire.

Yep, he said it: confident women render him impotent.

“I’d still bang her, of course,” he quickly adds, somewhat unconvincingly. With what? While there are plenty of ways to have amazing sex that don’t involve an erect penis at all, somehow I don’t think Forney is much interested in that kind of thing.

Eventually Forney gets to the thesis of his piece:

In order for America to right itself, there needs to be a massive and concerted war on female self-esteem.

He rehashes tiresome antifeminist arguments suggesting that women are pumped up from birth by too much praise, and grow up into stuck-up princesses who won’t give the Matt Forneys of the world the time of day.

Sorry, that last bit is just subtext. He doesn’t actually say that out loud.

Then he goes on to rehash more tired manosphere arguments about how women are worthless nothings compared to hard-working manly men.

Most girls have done nothing to deserve self-esteem.

In the world of men, respect—and by extension self-esteem—is based on actually achieving something of worth or having some kind of skill or talent.

Says a man whose only real accomplishment in life has been offending people on the internet.

Most girls’ so-called achievements, the ones they take pride in, are complete jokes. Wow, you have a master’s degree in puppetry?

Huh. Not sure where that’s offered. Meanwhile, Forney is involved in studying a far more serious subject: how to con women into bed using the science of “game” developed by eminent scientists on the internet with names like Heartiste and Badger Hut and The Captain Power.

Then it’s on to the similarly tired notion that women don’t work “real” jobs:

The vast majority of girls work useless fluff jobs … If every girl was fired from her job tomorrow, elementary schools would have to shut down for a couple days, but otherwise life would go on as usual.

If every man lost his job tomorrow, the country would collapse.

Yeah, I’m sure the world would tremble if Matt Forney stopped writing his blog posts.

Forney returns to the topic of insecurity, and the embarrassing personal revelations begin to flow once again:

[T]he girls I’ve loved the most were the ones who were the most insecure, the most emotionally vulnerable.

Somehow I don’t find this hard to believe.

So what group of men is sort of famous for being attracted to vulnerable women?

(Hint: It starts with “abus” and ends with “ers.”)

Forney tries to justify his own skeeziness with some good old-fashioned misogynistic nonsense — complete with societal collapse and a side order of rape.

Insecurity is the natural state of woman. How could it be anything else? Given their lack of physical strength, a woman on her own should be frightened as hell without men to protect her. If society were to collapse, all the Strong, Independent Women™ who read Jezebel and xoJane would last about five minutes before they either found a man to cling onto or got raped and killed.

Now, I don’t actually believe, as Susan Brownmiller once famously wrote, that rape is “a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear.”

But “arguments” like Forney’s above certainly give one pause. Essentially he’s saying the same thing as Brownmiller — except that he thinks this is good for men, good for women (and perhaps most importantly) good for his boner.

And, yeah, he actually spells that last bit out as explicitly as he can:

Confidence doesn’t give men erections; vulnerability does.

After saying that the fear caused by the threat of rape is good for women, Forney has the gall to suggest that feminism is causing mental illness among young women. Of course, like many backwards-thinking wannabe social critics, Forney thinks that psychiatric drugs — which can be quite effective in alleviating these illnesses — are just as bad as the illnesses themselves, because they remove the insecurities that make “girls” so sexy:

Ordinarily a depressed or insecure girl would seek solace in the loving embrace of a man, but daily hits from her good friend Saint Xanax short-circuit her feminine instincts.

Forney even throws a bit of evo psych paleobabble into the mix:

In squelching her inborn insecurity with you-go-grrlisms and drugs, the modern woman has become an emotional cripple. Like a fat slob eating Big Macs instead of a juicy steak from the supermarket, she substitutes having a dominant and confident man in her life with lotsa cocka and dating where she considers herself an “equal.”

The horror!

She views men as a life support system for a penis, an accoutrement, no different than her Manolo Blahniks or snazzy new iPhone. When she gets bored of her boy-toy, she tosses him in the trash and moves on to a newer, shinier model, and if she can get cash and prizes for trading in her old clunker, that’s just the icing on the cake.

Essentially, “confident” women are incapable of viewing men as human beings.

Gender-swap this little tirade (minus the MRA-lite bit about “cash and prizes,” code words for child support and alimony) and you have a capsule description of pretty much every “game”-obsessed dude in the manosphere

When manboobs and feminists say you should be happy that women today are “independent,” this is what they’re arguing for; a world in which romantic relationships are impossible.

Uh, most “manboobs and feminists” I know are actually in romantic relationships. Some of them with more than one partner.

Where men are nothing more than fashion items to help women show how cool or sophisticated they are. Sorry, but homie don’t play that game.

Sorry, homie, but I don’t think anyone is inviting you to that particular game. I’m trying to imagine a world in which the seething, petulant, hateful, overgrown emo kid that is Matt Forney is considered a “fashion item” to anyone, and my brain is seizing up.

And we’re on to more self-revelations:

So-called confident women are as threatening as a pile of dog turds. Sure, you can scrape them off your boots when you get home, but it’s better to not step in dog shit to begin with.

And more convoluted justifications. Now Forney wants to convince us that women don’t even really want self-esteem in the first place. No, they’d rather be spanked.

[I]n their bones, girls know that their toxic, feminist you-go-grrl ideology is a lie.  …

They want nothing more than for a man to throw them over his knee, shatter the Berlin Wall around their hearts, and expose the lovestruck, bashful little girl within.

Now, there are plenty of women (and plenty of non-women) who like a bit of spanking now and again as part of a consensually kinky sex life. Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s what Forney is talking about here. He seems to be suggesting that women want to be physically abused.

Game, at least as it was conceived by the seduction community, was all about this. All the hysterical nitwits blubbering about how “negging” and the like was designed to hurt girls’ self-esteem were precisely right, but that’s the thing; women are crying out for a man who will wound their self-esteem.

So I guess in Forneyland women love verbal abuse too.

“Confident” women are still women, and they still lust after men who dominate them, even if they can’t admit it to themselves. Because their self-esteem has been artificially boosted by society, today’s girls need extra-concentrated doses of dominance—i.e. game—in order to feel womanly, like a junkie chasing the dragon.

So women want to be treated badly, “even if they can’t admit it to themselves.” So if they say “no,” or “stop,” or “why are you doing this to me,” I presume Forney thinks that’s just their false consciousness speaking?

This is how abusers think.

And then Forney moves on to another favorite MRA trope: the idea that feminists fight rape because it secretly turns them on.

Girls will all but die without masculine attention. Hell, I’m even starting to think that the feminist agita about “rape culture” is part of this as well. Pushing lies like the claim that one in three women will be raped during her lifetime and their constantly expanding the definition of rape are ways for feminists to indulge their desire for vulnerability in a way that doesn’t conflict with their view of themselves as “strong” and “empowered.”

Forney winds up the post with a concentrated dose of abuser-think:

At the end of the day, there are no Strong, Independent Women™. There are only shrews pleading for a taming.

That’s how abusers think.

All the posturing, the pill-popping, the whining and demands for “equality”; they’re a cry for help.

That’s how abusers think.

Girls don’t want the six-figure cubicle job, the shiny Brooklyn 2BR, the master’s degree, the sexual liberation, none of it. They want to be collectively led back to the kitchen, told to make a nice big tuna sandwich with extra mayo and lettuce, then swatted on the ass as we walk out the door.

That’s how abusers think.

I say we give them what they want.

That’s how abusers think.

And that’s how Matt Forney thinks — though how he thinks he’s going to be able to support a non-empowered, kitchen-dwelling woman off of his paltry e-book sales I have no idea.

So what have we learned here?

Matt Forney, who literally admits that his penis wilts when he’s faced with a confident woman, needs insecure women to bolster his ego and his erection. And if he can’t find them, he wants to make them, to undercut the confidence of women with insults and fearmongering, “warnings” of rape and threats of violence and verbal abuse.

And that’s the real problem. Forney may write posts like this for attention. But he seems to believe this bullshit sincerely. And so do many of his readers. And that’s why his posts are worth paying attention to, even thought that’s exactly what he wants us to do. Because he reveals a lot more about himself than he thinks in his writings. And the better we understand these guys, the better we can fight them.

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freemage
freemage
7 years ago

That was well worth the wait; I appreciated the tip of the hat to Zvan, too.

Jef Withonef
7 years ago

Weird… I do know a girl with a masters degree in childhood education that does involve puppetry.

MrFancyPants
MrFancyPants
7 years ago

If every man lost his job tomorrow, the country would collapse.

Yeah, that’s true, kinda sorta. And if every woman lost her job tomorrow, the economy would collapse, too. Forney is a complete dope.

Hyena Girl
7 years ago

Even if you limit his “if every woman was fired from her job tomorrow” to traditionally female jobs (you know, feminized professions that were even acceptable in those holy and perfect says of the 1950s) where you’d end up is pretty dire.

Let’s look at the Mad Men list:
– Nurses
– Primary school teachers
– Librarians
– Secretaries
– Caregivers
– Homemakers

Looks like more than a couple days of closed elementary schools. We’re talking about people with specific fields of knowledge and experience who can’t be replaced at the drop of a hat. Of course this is a wildly and intentionally limited list based on a limited timeframe that we’re well past.

Hyena Girl
7 years ago

Oh and
– “Seamstress”

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

The University of Connecticut offers a master’s degree in puppetry: http://www.businessnewsdaily.com/4299-strange-college-majors.html

Personally I see no reason not to be impressed by someone who has mastered the art of puppetry. Puppetry is cool.

bodycrimes
7 years ago

I would put this shit down to an attempt to get hits on his blog – I’m almost embarrassed by how quickly people come running when some fool writes this crap – except for the giveaway about the worthlessness of Masters in Puppetry. Ooh, there’s a Freudian slip and a half. Does he think girls study how to manipulate? That they become really masterful at it? Is that what he’s actually afraid of?

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

Actually that isn’t the link I meant to drop here. It’s this one: http://www.drama.uconn.edu/?page_id=276

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
7 years ago

Whenever a girl I’m talking to brags about how she’s “confident” and “strong,” I can feel my dick deflating like a punctured tire.

Confidence doesn’t give men erections; vulnerability does.

Sometimes I wonder if all of these dimwits need their hormone levels checked… or erectile disfunction medication. I’m not even trying to be funny.

I’ve never heard any who speak like this. And I once got into a yelling, screaming match with an artist whose video I was shooting: 1) on the set, 2) in front of all his “folks”. It ended with me loudly proclaiming that I was the director and that I had handled the production and if he had a problem with me being in charge, then I’d shut the whole thing down.

And he and I still had sex that very night?

Who are these men who can’t get it up unless a woman is either chained to a stove or constantly on the edge of some sort of breakdown?

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
7 years ago

That’s a lot of typos. My apologies; you get the drift.

MrFancyPants
MrFancyPants
7 years ago

The puppetry thing was pretty funny. It reminded me of Portlandia:
“People would grow up wanting to be a clown, they went to *clown school*!”
“I gave up clowning a long time ago…”
“In Portland, you don’t HAVE to!”

sarahlizhousespouse
7 years ago

Generally people choose partners with a similar level of self-esteem. Forney has low self-esteem, hence his attraction to a woman with a low opinion of herself.

As for Xanax, it’s not handed out like candy. Benzos have a high risk of dependency and the withdrawal is an ugly thing to watch. So, Forney can go fuck himself with his stupid ideas about depression and psy meds.

Amy
Amy
7 years ago

I would spit in his sandwich.

gillyrosebee
7 years ago

“Insecurity is the natural state of woman. How could it be anything else? Given their lack of physical strength, a woman on her own should be frightened as hell without men to protect her.”

Interesting.

Aren’t these the same guys who completely lose their shit when women talk about being cautious when meeting men or hanging out with men they don’t know well because doing so suggests those women think all men are rapists and OMG MISANDRY!!?

dustydeste
dustydeste
7 years ago

No lie, every time I read some crap about how women need men to protect them and if there was an apocalypse all women would join a harem or get raped or whatever, I have a deep and abiding desire for someone to say that to my face so I could beat the everliving shit out of them. It just makes me SO MAD.

As an aside, it’s well established between my husband and I that, in the event of physical threats from other humans, I’m the one who’s going to deal with it, due to my being more physically abled, more aggressive, and more experienced at fighting. Somehow, though, I have no desire to chain him barefoot in the kitchen.

Nynaeve
Nynaeve
7 years ago

Whenever a girl I’m talking to brags about how she’s “confident” and “strong,” I can feel my dick deflating like a punctured tire.

(Hoping blockquote works this time.)

Shit that never happened. Because people who are confident and strong don’t have to say they’re confident and strong. They just are and it’s self evident. When people feel the need to tell you they are [insert positive characteristic here], they generally aren’t. Like guys who say “I’m a nice guy” or bigots who say “I’m not racist but…”

My guess is that Forney has never even spoken to a strong and confident woman. He knows his schtick doesn’t work on them.

dustydeste
dustydeste
7 years ago

As far as I know, Xanax is old-school when it comes to psych drugs and is rarely prescribed for depression/anxiety these days, largely due to dependency issues and side effects. I could be wrong, but that’s what I seem to remember from Abnormal Psych.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

“Girls will all but die without masculine attention.” And yet, lesbians seem be doing just fine.

So he’s sad cause he can’t get an erection because women are too confidant? Cry me a river, dude.

And while you’re at it, come do my job for awhile and tell me how it’s a “useless fluff job.”

And if anyone out there is hiring, contrary to Mr. Rotten Tripe’s opinion, I would love a “six-figure cubicle job.”

I’m almost impressed with this; it’s a veritable tour-de-force of bullshit. A person has to work really, really hard to be this stupid.

cloudiah
7 years ago

This was a particularly awesome post. I knew there was a reason I read this blog. XD

Also awesome? Puppets. Particularly large papier-mâché puppets used for political protests. No Master’s needed. I’ve helped make a pig, a Mr. Peanut, and an oversized woman who took three people to operate.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Xanax. Alprazolam. I had look that one up. It’s a benzodiazepine; my understanding is that it’s mostly used short-term to treat anxiety and panic attacks. It’s not something that a person takes on a routine basis, like most antidepressants (Zoloft, Lexapro, etc.). A person takes an antidepressant daily; benzos are taken for symptom relief. Mostly, where I work (nurse in a hospital) we use Ativan, but I’m not real sure if that’s because that’s just what our pharmacy carries, or because its a better drug, or what. But yeah, not generally used for long term management of depression.

Sarah
7 years ago

WVU, one of the USA’s top party school’s actually has a well respected puppetry program. When I was there I was friends with this man who was in it.

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

I think the bit that left me incapacitated by laughter the longest was this:

This is a fundamental violation of the relationship between men and women. Part of our identity as men based in women needing us, if not necessarily in a material sense, then in an emotional one, though material and emotional vulnerability often go hand in hand. That female insecurity is a crucial ingredient for unlocking our inner masculine instincts. If a girl needs me, feels that her life would end if she were to lose me, I’m doubly inspired to be there for her, to shield her from the cruelty of the world. Frankly, it’s pretty hot. If she just wants me, could take me or leave me, my gut response is one of apathy. “Yeah, whatever babe.”

I can’t decide whether to mercilessly mock, or pity him. So you can pick your next relationship partner. The first one doesn’t really care about you as an individual, they just need someone – anyone – and you’ll do. The second knows you, likes you, and wants to be with you. They don’t need you, and you might not see them more than once a week at certain times when they’re really busy with work or if they have to go on a business trip. They don’t really need anyone, they’re doing perfectly well on their own, but they want you.
And he picks option 1. Is actively turned off by option 2?

What?

I have dated the personification of option 2. She was, and is, glorious. Three years later, I’m still faintly glowing with the leftover happiness from the time we spent together.
I’m going to go with pitying him for the moment.

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

Okay, seriously, fuck this guy.

Sarah
7 years ago

Also, I was prescribed Xanax a few years ago for anxiety, and was told to take it once a day or as needed. I have no idea how common it is, but it’s clearly still being used.

I also abused the fuck out of it and then took myself off it. I don’t recommend my approach to prescription meds, kids.

Ashley
7 years ago

When I read the post several days ago, I too, thought that it reads to make him sound like the pathetic, sad, man, crying into his beer with a flaccid penis and a dirty magazine, wondering why there are no women on his level of rock bottom and feelings of worthlessness for him to relate to. He needs an insecure woman because he’s insecure man. This is his cry for help.

i just lurk here...
i just lurk here...
7 years ago

I know a *guy* who’s studying puppetry. So there, knuckledraggers!

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Re: benzos — my first go was klonopin, made me fucking suicidal in a week flat, so ativan it is — shorter half-life, safe to take in low doses daily for generalized anxiety. Xanax is old school stop a panic attack dead benzo, shit works fast and thus is taken recreationally (which, I gotta say, is great when you’re still finding a damned psych and aaaaahhh panic!! [yes I’ve bought black market psych drugs for there intended use, does this really surprise anyone?])

As for handing them out like candy. No. To the point those were costing me $5 a pop (for comparison here, I never paid more than $20 for acid or MDMA — it’s a hell of a mark-up, and people are willing to pay it for recreational use)

On topic, yeah, he’s clearly got a problem with the idea of dating or having sexytimes with a woman more confident than him. Considering the nature of his rants, he isn’t all that confident, so if he wants sexytimes, women must be reduced lower than him.

La Strega
7 years ago

Great analysis, David.

What struck me when I read this a couple of weeks ago was that I couldn’t figure out if his complaint was that women had too much, or too little, self-confidence. It’s par for the course that it doesn’t matter — it’s always the woman’s fault.

Interesting observations how these guys reveal so much about their own frailties in their writing, specifically how many of these relatively young guys seem to suffer from ED.

Myoo
Myoo
7 years ago

So, tangentially related to the post, Allie Brosh posted something new a few days ago:
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.pt/2013/10/menace.html

dlouwe
dlouwe
7 years ago

They want nothing more than for a man to throw them over his knee, shatter the Berlin Wall around their hearts

Does it sound to anyone else like Matt Forney is suggesting that women’s hearts are in their butts?

kittehserf
7 years ago

So only the possibility that he’s going to rape someone gives Forney an erection – that’s what I’ve got from this (and I can’t be bothered reading past the “confidence doesn’t give Forney men erections: vulnerability does” shit). Gosh, what a surprise, he’s practically admitting to being a rapist or at least wannabe-rapist.

Nothing to see here, folks.

HEY FORNEY

THERE ARE STRONG, CONFIDENT WOMEN EVERYWHERE YOU GO

Wouldn’t it be nice if fuckwad never had an erection again? Impotence would suit him very well.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Perfect dovetailing of events: the day all women lose their jobs is the day Forney has an accident or illness requiring hospitalisation. (I’m not wishing that upon him, but neither would I give a damn if it happened.)

So, no ambulance available because so many crew members are gone. No hospitals, because most of the nurses and plenty of the doctors are gone. Ditto all the medical specialists, the techs doing x rays and ultrasounds and all the other tests.

No food for Mr Forney, either, since women do so much in the food preparation business, whether we’re talking factory produced or home cooked (and what’s the bet he isn’t much of a cook).

No processing of any payments to him, because it happened to be women in the accounts sections.

No nothing.

How about all the women in the US just going on strike? Hey, the gobshites in Congress can do it, why not everyone else? Egalitarianism and all that!

jp
jp
7 years ago

**Girls don’t want the six-figure cubicle job, the shiny Brooklyn 2BR, the master’s degree, the sexual liberation, none of it. They want to be collectively led back to the kitchen, told to make a nice big tuna sandwich with extra mayo and lettuce, then swatted on the ass as we walk out the door.**

Umm, know what? I really DO want the job I got with my advanced degree, with its decent salary and benefits, and the house I bought with my own money (not in Brooklyn, but in a really cool town), and the sexual liberation. Kai thanx bai!

goodrumo
7 years ago

Reblogged this on iheariseeilearn.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

What’s funny about this is that if it were true they wouldn’t need to work so hard to try to make it happen. I, as a woman, want Chinese food on a regular basis. Because I actually do want it, talking me into getting it isn’t very hard. I do not, however, want to fuck sexist assholes, and so far the score on attempts to persuade me to do so is running at 0/lots.

Socialkenny
7 years ago

I’ve had my feuds with Matt in the past. He seem to hold onto grudges pretty long. He had basically attacked me on Twitter along with Ferdinand Bardamu because I’d went at Heartiste and Roosh. Pretty childish but Matt still has a childish mentality.

http://mattforney.com/2012/09/13/my-day-of-rolling-like-kenny/

allthedots
7 years ago

Going for my Master’s in Environmental Engineering. Similar to puppetry, I guess.

kittehserf
7 years ago

“Along with Ferdinand Bardamu” – you do know he and Forney are the same person, don’t you?

kittehserf
7 years ago

auggz – when he’s not yapping about how trying to fuck fifteen year olds is totes fine in the Caribbean.

::spits::

SittieKitty
7 years ago

If every girl was fired from her job tomorrow, elementary schools would have to shut down for a couple days, but otherwise life would go on as usual.

As a midwife… I seriously doubt I even need to finish that sentence. The majority of midwives around the world are women, and the majority of births around the world are done by midwives. NA is weird in that the majority of births here are done by OBs, but in the rest of the world 80-90% of all births are done by midwives. And that includes developed countries (because I just know some asshole is going to say that “it’s because 3rd world abloobloo”).

If society were to collapse, all the Strong, Independent Women™ who read Jezebel and xoJane would last about five minutes before they either found a man to cling onto or got raped and killed.

Seriously, this again. Such low faith in humanity and social structure. Even if economic and infrastructure collapsed people are still people – most of them are decent human beings who would want to form social groups in order to survive cooperatively.

Ordinarily a depressed or insecure girl would seek solace in the loving embrace of a man, but daily hits from her good friend Saint Xanax short-circuit her feminine instincts.

As afabGQ (close enough to girl), I hate having people around me when I’m depressed. I want to complain and get sympathy, and have no one come near me irl because I think interacting with them is too much effort and people always say the wrong things even if they’re trying to help. I look at interactions when I’m depressed as exhausting annoyances that I only put up with if I absolutely have to (like the last couple weeks have been). Most of the time I shut myself off from everyone, and I do it very well.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Seriously, this again. Such low faith in humanity and social structure. Even if economic and infrastructure collapsed people are still people – most of them are decent human beings who would want to form social groups in order to survive cooperatively.

Exactly. MRAs: projecting their own insecurities and hate-filled fantasies onto everyone else.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
7 years ago

Eh, I’ll take what I can get. Yes – Matt and Ferdinand Bardamu, being the same person, are people one can have a bit of a feud with. They’re also people one can really, really get confused by, and wonder: “Just what is the point?”. For instance, everyone is re-tweeting that story there now. So it’s getting massive coverage. So the comment section over there has, by this time… A lot of comments.

Does Matt Forney generate add revenue per hit on the website / post in general, or what’s the idea here?

Speaking of ideas and perspectives on gender relations, let’s try something fun.
(“Fun” is a relative word and FibiCorp offers noguaranties)

Here’s two people reading 50 Shades of Grey, Chapter 1, and annotating the book and their experience.

One is Matt Forney – http://mattforney.com/2012/08/27/the-annotated-fifty-shades-of-grey-part-1-journey-to-the-center-of-the-female-id/

(Who sometimes reads this comment section. Hi Forney! I’m not a fan!)

One is Cliff of the Pervocracy – http://pervocracy.blogspot.dk/2013/09/lets-read-fifty-shades-of-grey-chapter-1.html

(Who sometimes comments in this comment section. I think your blog is swell!)

Let’s compare!
—-
From the 50 shades of Grey: I should be studying for my final exams, which are next week, yet here I am trying to brush my hair into submission.

Matt’s take: Oh wow, how stimulating! It really feels like I’m in the mind of a 21-year old girl and not a 45-year old English hausfrau trapped in a failing marriage!

Pervocracy: Get it? Get it? Do you get it? (It’s the submission thing)
—-

From 50 shades of Grey: Oh, I exercise control in all things, Miss Steele,” he says without a trace of humor in his smile. I look at him, and he holds my gaze steadily, impassive. My heartbeat quickens, and my face flushes again.

Matt’s take: Throughout the entire interview, Ana finds herself improbably turned on by Grey’s aloof, arrogant attitude, though she doesn’t define it as such. Say what?

Pervocracy: I’m supposed to be making more helpful comments than just “oh God I’m laughing too hard,” here. I’m supposed to be witty and penetrating and stuff. But oh God, I’m just laughing too hard. This is the kind of innuendo that would embarrass James Bond. It would embarrass Roger Moore James Bond.
—-

Ultimate takeaway from chapter 1 of 50 shades of Grey?

Matt: I’m sure someone like Heartiste could do an analysis of Grey’s tight game (remaining aloof, giving non-answers to Ana’s question, negging her as she walked out the door), but I only care about the comically bad writing.

Pervocracy:Aww. It’s like the end of The Empire Strikes Back.

“I loved our brief, awkward, and completely inappropriate interview.”
“I know.”
—–

Everyone. I give you the differences between an MRA and someone who isn’t. When presented with someone going “Oh, I exercise control in all things” and no sense of personal space or boundaries, an MRA will think: “I’m sure someone could do an analysis of this man’s tight game, which I should emulate to be more sucessful with those foolish women, who are stupid”.

And a person will go “What? Hahahaha”.

Not that anyone is perfect or that there aren’t actually some elements of 50 shades of Grey that aren’t done very well (The book is an excellent doorstopper), but… Do you see this? Am I the only one? I can’t be the only one! I’m not that special. But this is like staring into a realm completely different to what everyday life is like. Where two people can read the same thing, and depending on whether they think women are people, come away with such staggeringly different takeaways that it boogles the mind.

No wonder Matt Forney doesn’t like women with self esteem. How could he? His world consists of pain, internalized, and misery on such a scale that it is just utterly inane.

Jayem Griffin
7 years ago

Regarding that tweet: You know, I’m from Buffalo, and my favorite nickname for my city is the City of No Illusions. Good luck, Forney. Good luck.

ignotussomnium
ignotussomnium
7 years ago

Pffft. Oh yes, I spent two years and a whole lot more money than I want to think about to get my master’s degree because I don’t want one.

Look, I’ve known some women in higher ed who were absolutely brilliant AND knew that they really wanted to be stay-at-home moms. They also really wanted to get their degrees! These are not contradictory things. For one, you’re not likely to start right out of college with the income to support two adults and a child on one paycheck. Two, even if they do manage it for a few years while the kids are really little, the mom might decide to go back to work for any number of reasons. And that’s totally cool!

Compared to the rest of Fourney’s disgusting drivel this is a pretty small point, but it bugs me when people act as if stay-at-home moms and educated women are completely different people and never the twain shall meet.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Can’t say it boggles me all that much, Fib. That a slimeball like Forney would approve of the women-hating stuff in 50 Shades of Dreck comes as no surprise. Nor does what it say about his internal life (snort – I’d have said he was dead inside) surprise me, or shock me, or anything else. I simply don’t care about his pain or misery, because he wants to inflict pain and misery on half the world’s population. MRAs might be a tiny minority but scumbag human beings of whatever sort are ten a penny.

/old and jaded

aebars
7 years ago

MRAs/PUAs are always saying that feminists shame men for being male, via such things as the ‘Don’t Be That Guy’ campaign, and whatnot. Trust me, dudes, such things do not make me feel half as ashamed to be male as posts of yours, such as this one, do.

Lili Fugit
Lili Fugit
7 years ago

1) There is nothing he has written that wasn’t written already, in better English, with a better vocabulary, with better grammer, in the 1800s by the shit ton of men absolutely terrified that women might want to do something besides tightlace and have babies. What I’m trying to say is, I don’t know how anyone can get worked up at Forney, for indeed he bores me so.

2) In fact I don’t have a master’s degree in puppetry, which bothers me. I took classes in puppetry, a fact I’m pretty inordinately proud of– but then I’m a girl who self confidently builds kick-ass puppets– and I’ve known a few GUYS who maybe had master’s degrees in puppetry, but sadly I was pretty busy getting my doctorate in something else at the time.

3) I’ve considered staging “50 Shades” of whatever. In puppet form. Alas, I’d need a master’s degree to pull it off, so I’ll just leave it to Teh Menz.

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