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Men only commit crimes to make women happy, explains lady MRA

Woman: Always wanting men to buy them toasters -- or steal them!
Woman: Always wanting men to buy them toasters — or steal them!

Sometimes posts by Men’s Rights Activists seem like transmissions from some alternate universe, a Bizarro world that bears a superficial resemblance to our own but where everything is backwards and upside down.

Take a recent post on A Voice for Men by FeMRA Diana Davison with the seemingly innocuous title “Women don’t own sex.” Ostensibly a response to a piece about rape in the Irish Times, the piece contains a series of bizarre assertions about relations between men and women that Davison apparently thinks she can use as proof that, despite all evidence to the contrary, it’s really women, not men, who run the world. And that men only commit crimes in order to make women happy.

Let’s go through her, um, argument:

Though men appear to rule the world, that is because women treat them like gophers: Go get me stuff.

Really? Perhaps on Real Housewives, but I’m pretty sure most women in the world don’t actually live like the Real Housewives do. Nor do they particularly want to.

A man’s worth in our world is not assessed on how much wealth he possesses, it is based on the level of happiness of his woman.

Really? Here’s Forbes’ list of the 71 most powerful people in the world — most of them, of course, men. You will notice that “the level of happiness of his woman” is not one of the criteria used to determine who gets on the list or not. Barack Obama is the top name on the list; his “woman” outearned him for years until his books took off. The Pope is #5. He doesn’t have a woman, at least as far as I know. Going down the list you will see powerful man after powerful man, none of whom are judged at all by how much stuff they buy their “women.”

But no: in MRA-world men are helpless creatures who exist only to give stuff to women– and who are sometimes even forced into a life of crime to fulfill the feminine need for more and more stuff!

Why do men commit crimes? I’ll posit this: because they need more stuff to make a woman happy or because they have been rejected by a woman shaming them for not being good enough and feel they have nothing left to lose. Committing a crime has a penalty. They need a reason to risk that penalty. It’s going to be primal. Think… think… are you with me?

Uh, no?

MRAs complain endlessly about how women need to “take responsibility” for this and that — which mainly seems to mean that they should sit still while men call them sluts for having sex like men do — but in MRA world men are never, ever, ever responsible for anything they do. There’s always a woman to blame.

Hell, even if a dude rapes a woman who’s sleeping in a bed beside him, he’s not to blame, because in Diana Davison’s bizarro universe lying in a man’s bed automatically overrides the necessity for him to obtain consent before having sex with you.

Men have every right to believe that a woman sleeping in the bed next to them is going to be happily awoken [by sex]. If you don’t want sex, don’t sleep in their fucking bed.

So if you’re a married woman, or you live with a guy, and you share the same bed, apparently he has the right to have sex with you any time you’re asleep in that bed. No matter what. In Diana Davison’s world, no means no, but sleeping in bed means yes. And if you don’t like it, ladies — that’s your own damn fault! Go sleep on the couch. (Or does that make you fair game too?)

Davison then turns to the power of metaphor to clinch her case that women are to blame for everything:

The man is the head of the house but the woman is the neck and she can turn the head any way she wants.

This may be the strangest metaphor I’ve run across in weeks, and as a regular reader of manosphere blogs I’m used to some pretty strange metaphors.

Speaking of which:

Feminists claim that men objectify women but it’s women who think that men are just walking, magical penises and that the penis has the mystical quality of getting them stuff.

I don’t really have anything to say to this stupidity, but I would like to share with you some of what I found when I searched YouTube for the phrase “walking penis.” As you might imagine, a lot of what follows is probably sort of NSFW, unless you work in a sex-toy recycling facility, so view with appropriate care.

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aebars
7 years ago

Hey, Dave, this is off-topic, but, if you’re not already aware of it, you have to write a post about the following screed from Matt Forney, it’s disgusting: http://mattforney.com/2013/09/16/the-case-against-female-self-esteem/ Choice quote: “In order for America to right itself, there needs to be a massive and concerted war on female self-esteem” Says it all.

Falconer
7 years ago

Yes, yes, you all talk about my babies when I’m not even here. Soon this website will have to say “Falconbabies. I d’awwwwww them.”

@CassandraSays: When my babies were tiny (so, like, a week ago six months ago) and one would throw a tantrum because zie was hungry, we started calling them “drama llamas.”

Falconer
7 years ago

And eeeeeee! LBT started their trip! Have fun! Good luck!

katz
7 years ago

I believe that it’s possible to correct someone’s language without them announcing that they’re leaving the internet forever and storming off in a flurry of sock puppets. Truly I do.

Did anyone else find that flounce a wee bit familiar?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

In theory it’s possible, but it’s a behavior not observed in the wild any time recently.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

“In order for America to right itself, there needs to be a massive and concerted war on female self-esteem”

That sounds a lot like Roosh “sure the social safety net helps me, but if it’s good for female self-esteem then burn society to the ground.”

Basically they just hate women.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Katz: I don’t think TGG was a sock, it’s just a familiar whine at this point.

Ally S
7 years ago

This is Tristan again, & I just want to clarify some things.

I didn’t come here to start shit. Yes, I am a woman. The people I call “bitches” the most are actually straight men in my regular life who are abusive towards me. I’m leaving my online life completely now because I realize I don’t fit into society at all. Everything I do & say is wrong, & it will always be wrong. & I realize that now.

But I’m sure you say a lot of things that are right. This is probably the only major disagreement you’ve dealt with on here, to my knowledge. And I hope I didn’t sound like I was saying that everything you say is wrong; I just said that some things you say can be wrong since everyone is prone to making mistakes. It’s a human thing.

I, for instance, genuinely used to believe that the c-word was always gender-neutral because I was misinformed about its actual usage, and so I used it from time to time. But once I found out about its misogynistic connotation, I simply stopped using it and never looked back. It was a mistake of mine; I never intended to be sexist at all when I used that word, and in fact I thought I was totally fine because I mostly used it for men I found extremely reprehensible. Nevertheless, once I learned that the word is regularly used to demean men and women via misogyny, I stopped using it.

I don’t know what else to say to you other than that I’m sorry if I’ve hurt your feelings unintentionally; I was just trying to explain my aversion to that word you used (which others here share as well). While I can only speak for myself, I do believe that you’re not trying to be some horrible bigoted person who has no respect for anyone. I don’t know what you mean precisely by leaving your online life completely, and you’re of course not obligated to clarify, but whatever happens I hope things work out for you and you can get a chance to avoid all of the hatred that has been wearing you down.

Falconer
7 years ago

Yeah, the I AM ALWAYS WRONG I HATE YOU FOREVER sounded like a miffed 13 year old, although Tristan is probably a lot older than that, and if she is she should feel kind of ashamed.

Falconer
7 years ago

One of the gimmicks that TSR gave its Planescape setting in order to set it apart from its, gee, at least seven other settings (Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Al-Qadim, Ravenloft, Dark Sun) is that they set up a dialect for it, similar to rhyming slang, which helped give Sigil at least the feel of 19th-Century London.

One of the slang words for “a person” was “berk.” If someone wasn’t called “cutter,” xie was called “berk.”

For those who don’t know, “berk” is actual slang; it’s short for “Berkely hunt,” which is historical rhyming slang for guess what.

It’s probably moot right now; TSR is defunct, Planescape is no longer supported beyond a few articles in Dragon Magazine, and I don’t know if anyone actually called TSR out for it at the time.

But it kind of killed the setting for me. It’s all over, in every published book.

cloudiah
7 years ago

I think it’s kind of hilarious that the world’s most entitled man-children think women’s self esteem is the problem.

Someone said the other day that Forney provides proof that “the patriarchy” is just a protection racket. (I think I’ve got that right.) I thought that sounded right.

Falconer
7 years ago

… How is “the patriarchy” a protection racket?

“Noice cultcha ye got ‘ere, be a shame if annyfing ‘appened to it.”

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Yeah, the I AM ALWAYS WRONG I HATE YOU FOREVER sounded like a miffed 13 year old, although Tristan is probably a lot older than that, and if she is she should feel kind of ashamed.

I think the word you’re looking for there is “manipulative” rather than “miffed”. Or possibly in addition to.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Oh, wow, I didn’t see the part where they made up a new name to drama llama all over the place.

Manipulative in the extreme.

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

Ok… so I feel bad for jumping on someone who’s already been piled on, and who has already flounced, but wtf is with this whole “you criticised me, so I must leave!” thing?
I meant to comment about this earlier, but I needed to find the article that sprang immediately to mind, and I did a really good job of not remember where it was. I put it in a safe place so I wouldn’t lose it, but then I forgot where the safe place was.

So, here’s the thing, if you’re a part of a community, and you do or say something that is frowned upon by that community, you’re going to get criticised for it. It’s not because you’re suddenly public enemy #1 or the devil incarnate, it’s because you did a thing that’s frowned on and people want you to address that. You’re not being demonised or ostracised, you’re just being asked to look at how they way you choose to act and speak can effect others around you. Maybe those behaviours are fine in other situations, but that doesn’t mean that they’re ok in this situation.
I mean, imagine I have a really traditionalist relationship with my girlfriend who I just made up – she cooks and cleans and gives me all the sex; I go out and hunt the mammoth for her and then sit back, put my muddy boots on the furniture, watch tv and ignore her. Somehow, we’re both happy with this arrangement. Does this behaviour being ok in my own home with my imaginary girlfriend make it acceptable when I come over to yours, demand that you make me a sammich, make a mess of your living room, and ignore you while watching your tv?
You don’t have to leave society entirely, and you certainly don’t have to act like it’s our fault you’re leaving society for our complicated and impossible rules. You just have to think about it a little and make some small adjustments.
I’ve had to make a few adjustments since I first commented here, and I feel like I’ve improved a little overall because of it. I’ve only slipped up around five times since then, and three of them were here – two were late last night in a single comment. (I said “crazy dream” referring to a bad dream, and “world of utter madness” referring to a terrible, terrible world. I’m actually a little surprised nobody called me on it at the time, anyway, sorry about that.)

The article I linked to shows exactly how not to react to criticism, and I’m sorry Tristian, if you’re still watching the comments, but that’s exactly how you’ve reacted to it. You’ve taken a valid criticism of your word choice and turned it into an attack on you personally. Criticisms are not personal attacks, they are tools to point out things that you might want to work on, nothing more.

Falconer
7 years ago

@hellkell:

drama llama

I can’t tell you how big my grin is right now.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Drama llama is a classic, Falconer.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

I’m leaving my online life completely now because I realize I don’t fit into society at all. Everything I do & say is wrong, & it will always be wrong. & I realize that now.

I can even
This is an extremely frustrating attitude.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Viscaria: that always get my hackles up, because you just know the person who says it is a craving a, “no, you’re fine, it’s OK, all is forgiven,” no matter what assy thing they’ve just said or done. It’s a shitty thing to do.

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

I didn’t see the part where they made up a new name to drama llama all over the place

Are the Drama Llamas friends of the Karma Rama Farmers?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

RE that link

Ugh, high school drama. Why can people not learn that if you need to blow off steam about something that pissed you off on a blog or forum in terms of interpersonal dynamics then you do it privately, not in public?

Falconer
7 years ago

Thank you, hellkell!

katz
7 years ago

Athywren: Oh, the drama. That post really sounds like one of our marginal characters, Boggi or that sort, if he wrote a whole post about how he was mistreated here. I don’t know the context, but it screams “There’s another side to this story and that side is probably right.”

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

Ugh, high school drama. Why can people not learn that if you need to blow off steam about something that pissed you off on a blog or forum in terms of interpersonal dynamics then you do it privately, not in public?

Want to hear a funny story? I was given that link in response to a request for an argument against atheism+ with a little more depth and thought to it than, “IT’S LIKE A RELIGION!!!!!” It was presented to me as a rational refutation of feminism. I was quite amused.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

The comments are just lovely too.

But hey I also agree that the nasty photoshops should stop as well. I’m in agreement. But I don’t think it should be done unilaterally. That might seem nasty, but I don’t think it is. People tend to respond in kind to kind. People think being called misogynistic is extremely nasty. Respect their (our) feelings on this matter, and you might start to see some progress.

If you don’t want people making disgusting photoshops of you then you better not call them a misogynist! This is a totally fair and reasonable approach and does not at all resemble how a toddler would approach the situation.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

This, however, made me LOL.

“Very anti-skeptical; very bad karma.”

I guess karma is no longer a religious concept because blah blah new age something or other, I can appropriate Indian things and ignore the parts that I don’t like and just re-frame them in a more convenient way if I want to. White privilege sure is awesome.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“‘crazy dream’ referring to a bad dream”

Yeah I saw that, and figured you meant a crazy (legit mental illness) induced dream, cuz OHAI PTSD nightmares! I haz crazy dreams.

Also, pecunium is an excellent cook.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

Re the illustration at the top, it may be the case that “there’s no gift more welcome than an electric appliance” but not when that appliance is a toaster!

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

I don’t know the context, but it screams “There’s another side to this story and that side is probably right.”

Whaaaat? All she said was that if the woman being discussed at the time didn’t want to receive rape and death threats, she should have followed the convention’s report procedure! What’s wrong with that!?
I mean, to a certain extent, I could see her criticism – I don’t remember what was said well enough to give you an accurate picture, but it’s fairly early in the comments on that pharyngula page she links to – but her point was that rape and death threats are just what you get for not following procedure. The “brutal harassment” (criticism… though, granted, it was pretty harsh) that her anti-harassment group refused to discuss was people telling her that, whatever the details of what happened, victim blaming isn’t cool.

Well, what can you do? People are always the hero in their own narrative.

Mysterics
Mysterics
7 years ago

@ Cassandra
Using the word ‘karma’, isn’t appropriation, it’s a religious concept and people that don’t belong to that religion shouldn’t be expected to use the word according to the rules that the religion dictates, the fact the religion is associated with a certain country (which all religions are) doesn’t change that.

Also ideas naturally cross borders and mutate to mean different things, why do you think athiests say ‘Happy Christmas!” because they’re appropriating Israeli beliefs because of white privilege?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Weak trolling, 0.5 out of 5. Must try harder.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Great, more word wank. Thanks, mysterics.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

why do you think athiests say ‘Happy Christmas!” because they’re appropriating Israeli beliefs because of white privilege?

But…

No, see…

My god, none of my religious background prepared me for this moment AT ALL.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I think he’s trying that “baffle them into submission” trick the PUA dude Dave posted about a while back was waffling about.

Mysterics
Mysterics
7 years ago

Let me guess, I got the origin of Christianity wrong, if I did, I apologize for that, but it’s hardly ‘wank’ or ‘trolling’, if I didn’t you are then stop making out religious (or spiritual if you’d rather) concepts to be the registered property of a certain race when they aren’t. Your religion is not your race, or the property of your race.

Mysterics
Mysterics
7 years ago

“If I didn’t you are” sorry bout that.
*In any case

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

The power of my incoherence compels you!

(Waves special atheist wand, ruffles PUA cloak)

cloudiah
7 years ago

(Waves special atheist wand, ruffles PUA cloak)

“That’s not a wand, that’s my katana!”

Mysterics
Mysterics
7 years ago

I don’t exactly expect to come to place that supposedly hates sexism, racism, xenophobia and irrationality and expect to get told that I’m not allowed to criticize or make light of a religious concept just because of where I come from.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

“Yes, that is a tanto in my pocket, because I am definitely not glad to see you, you feminazi boner-killer!”

cloudiah
7 years ago

[Aside to everyone else: Does anyone understand what Mysterics is going on about?]

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Doesn’t understand that religion is a component of culture and therefore subject to racist appropriation: I see, I see.

Do go on.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

[Not so much. He is a perfect illustration of the “trolling or just stupid?” dilemma.]

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

@Cloudiah:

Mysteric wants to be able to use the word ‘karma’ without being accused of cultural appropriation, OR being accused of being religious.

I think.

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

Roman.
I say happy solstice, because while I can’t be bothered with the “AHA! So you DO believe!!!” conversation, the “WHY ARE YOU SO HATEFUUUUUL!?” conversation amuses me.
Karma is basically just spiritual victim blaming. Born without arms? It’s because you were a terrible person in a past life. Bah.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

The way that the word “karma” is used most of the time by Westerners is exhibit A of the way cultural appropriation leads to concepts being dumbed down into complete pointlessness.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

cloudiah: no idea what Mysterics is going on about. I guess the atheists here are not atheist enough for them?

Mysterics
Mysterics
7 years ago

You know, if you don’t understand what I’m on about or wonder what my motives are, you could, you know, just ask me.
I don’t particularly want to use the word ‘karma’ at all,it’s not in my vocabulary.
All I want is to criticism or make light of religious concepts at all, I am not a believer, I am not subject to your religious rules and I do not appreciate accusation of racist attack just to make me conform to religious rules.

The only way for religion to be subject to racist appropriation is to attribute that religion to the members of that race as if they were monolithic, when I have made it very clear that religion is not a trait of any race.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

He so desperately wants to criticism, but I just don’t think he has it in him. Maybe if we gave him a cloak it would help?