I’ve read and watched and listened to a lot of creepy pickup artist crap over the past few years while writing this blog, but in some ways this little video, from PUA “coach” Julian of Real Social Dynamics, one of the bigger and better known of the commercial “game” marketers, may well be the creepiest. Essentially, Julian provides tips to young men on how to “get” the girl of their dreams by temporarily driving her out of her mind.
No, really: he recommends that men overwhelm their female targets with confusing and contradictory stimuli to throw them so off-balance they’ll reflexively turn to their mental tormenters for support (and, maybe later, reward them with sex). This isn’t pick-up artistry so much as freak-out artistry.
The one thing about this video that is vaguely reassuring is that Julian’s examples of his technique in action are so crude and hamhanded I seriously doubt they’d actually work on anyone “in field,” as the PUAs like to say. What’s not so reassuring is that anyone would actually come up with something this predatory and perverse in the first place. Also, you know that at least a few of the video’s 32,000 viewers have actually tried out this technique on annoyed and bewildered women around the world. The world doesn’t really need any new ways for dudes to be assholes in clubs.
Dude, did you watch the video? That isn’t “stimulating [her] mind”, stimulating conversation we’ve got no problem with (you do not provide such btw). This is attempting to confuse her until she does what you want because she’s looking for something to latch onto into the chaos and that’ll be you (I am paraphrasing the damned video)…that’s manipulation, and wrong, you little shit.
Good: He’s not talking about “stimulating a woman’s mind,” he’s talking about “short-circuiting” a woman’s brain. Throwing a woman so off balance that she clings to the dude who is throwing her off balance as a stable point of reference (which makes no sense, a person is more likely to slowly edge away if someone is putting them off balance). That’s skeevy. And, yeah, of what a person is trying to “sell” is sex to another person who does not want to have sex with them, that is super skeevy.
Yep, what Argenti said.
@Good: Sex is not a transaction, BZZT try again.
Good can’t tell the difference between an argument and an insult. Of course he can’t tell the difference between conversation and manipulation.
What’s really weird to me is that I have actually considered using a variation on this technique… to startle people I want to make a quick escape from. Just suddenly bellow complete nonsense and then bolt while they try and figure out what the fuck I’m on about.
Somehow, I doubt it’d be more effective as a sexytime technique.
RE: Binjabreel
Also, seriously, this is hands down one of the least ableist websites I’ve ever seen.
That doesn’t make this site above criticism. And I’m with arubakeru on this one; I would hope that even the world’s most socially awkward person wouldn’t turn to assholery.
RE: Good
I AM a skilled salesman. My recent convention take is proof of that. And yet somehow, I sell my work NOT by trying to overwhelm people with conflicting babbleroar. I sell by being friendly, approachable, and giving quick descriptions of my work, and then letting folks go if they’re not interested.
(ALSO ZOMG GUYS MY TRIP STARTS IN TWO DAYS I AM SO EXCITED)
Nobody can short circuit anyone’s brain with a freaking conversation. He is using hyperbole. This is a great example of women not taking responsibility for their own behavior. I guess now, we should prosecute based on him short-circuiting her brain.
Question. How many women on this site could have their brains short-circuited by a PUA? Argenti Aertheri is one of the dumbest idiots on the face of the Earth. Think before you respond. You seem gullible enough to fall for a PUA.
@Good: Sex is not a transaction, BZZT try again.
Now there is some serious naivety.
ō.Ó? That’s special Good, very special. That’d be a (very poor) attempt at begging though, not this short curculio shit he’s talking about. I repeat — did you watch the damned video?
LBT — me too! We’re doing this Friday right?
Good, the irony of you calling someone else stupid is almost too ironic to comment on.
Almost.
Also, you don’t get to call people “dumb.” That’s ableist, you disgusting little turd.
Good, you think before you respond. Of course it’s not possible to short circuit a person’s brain based on a conversation. That is not the point; the point is Julian actually thinks he can do that (because ladybrains are so mushy and react emotionally and not logically!) and also thinks that is just perfectly fine to manipulate people in that way. That is skeevy.
And no, sex is not a transaction.
*short circuiting
Gods do I hate iOS 7’s autocorrect.
Good, the irony of you calling someone else stupid is almost too ironic to comment on.
Almost.
Also, you don’t get to call people “dumb.” That’s ableist, you disgusting little turd.
It’s funny that you mentioned both “dumb” and “stupid” as both meaning the same thing, then make the “ableist” accusation. Dummy.
Good, you’re an asshole, and clearly a little low on that whole “understanding how words and arguments work” skill, but I’m sure someone has explained to you in the past that using words that are designated as pejorative due to their association with disability is what we nonassholes like to call “a shit thing to do.” In other works, “more evidence that you’re a little shithead,” not that we needed more of that.
In other news, learn to blockquote if you’re going to be quoting.
The horrible thing is, this is a thing that actually happens. Not people using it as a pick-up technique, because I hope that is too far beyond awful for anyone to actually do, but I am very familiar with the “short-circuiting.” I have problems processing social situations, and when I’m in a large group of people and the conversation is moving very fast, it’s easy for me to lose touch with what is going on and panic. (It can happen in smaller groups, but then it’s easier for me to stop and ask what is going on, what are we talking about now? and people are more likely to listen.)
That kind of disconnection from the world around you is very real- and very terrifying. That someone would try to use that mental state to manipulate another person into bed… screw this world.
Aw, fuck. My brain. It burns. I think a cluster of neurons just detonated, reading that.
Nevermind your imbecilic assumption about “hyperbole” from a man who directly, and I quote, says: “And this will short circuit their brain, like a jolt, like a fucking jolt, I’ve seen it happen, like I’m in the club and… overwhelm their logical centers… confuse them… look at your for comfort… read that book about the superior man, women are always looking for support and if you create chaos you can be that support from the chaos you create…”, yes, let’s just ignore that.
It’s not about whether or whether not it’s fucking possible. It’s about what someone is claiming is the percieved, possible, probable result of taking the action he is recommending. You can sit there, high and mighty, and proclaim: “Hah! Only the stupid would fall for this!” and that gets you off well and clear, but what about the rest of the world and the followers who will go out, tonight, and repeat this very same thing to confuse and befuddle another group of people?
Secondly, “How many women on this site could have their brains short-circuited by a PUA?” makes no sense as a question if you already, in your first sentence, write that “Nobody can short cirtcuit anyone’s brain with a freaking conversation”. You are literally taking the time to ask a question you have answered yourself because you want us to give you the answer you have already given, and if we deviate in any way from your stance, you get to call us stupid.
What the fuck. WHY?!
Moving on from that to then head straight to “Argenti Aertheri is one of the dumbest idiots on the face of the Earth. Think before you respond” is such an strange move. It doesn’t even relate. How is Argenti Aertheri one of the dumbest idiots? By what sample? By which measurement? Compared to what? In relation to what? Flat worms? Third graders? You? Me? If you’re going to insult someone in such a specifically silly manner, coming as it does as a non sequitor from anything else you have written, at least either make it entertaning, witty or true, and your snide insult is NONE of those. If it’s meant to be “Obviously, Argenti would fall for a PUA, because Aertheri is stupid” then you don’t even manage that, because Argenti tells you how that trick would not work when applied to a conversation with Argenti fucking Aertheri. It’s like processing casual relationships in your head is just.. impossible.
Do you genuinely percieve a world of completely isolated objects? Are you a traveller from another dimension who understands each thing as a thing, seperate and inviolable, in such a way as to have to add those things up into other things to perceive and object? Do you cogiate on the atomic scale?
GOOD GOD, GOOD, I am trying so hard to teach you to think, to be a person, to be happy, but it’s like you just… don’t accept. LIke you just don’t care. At all.
Aaaah.
And for the record, you blubbering, festing postule on the backside of a goat yapping endlessly against the harsh, beating sun of the desert, I am stupid enough to fall for a PUA trick, because I did, and I have, and it happens, and you want to know why? Because you can manipulate people fairly easily exactly because not everyone is constantly paranoid about other people. That doesn’t make it right.
And for the record, Argenti Aertheri has an minimum level of education capable of at least writing in a pleasing manner and constructing sentences, which you clearly do not.
Bees, man. BEES.
Wonderful handwaving, darling. Simply fabulous. Next time I need a really ambiguous non-response I’ll just have to call you up.
@arubakeru: When I said earlier that this seems like a bad attempt at turning social-awkwardness into a successful pick-up technique, I didn’t mean to offend socially awkward people, so I really apologize. I wasn’t really thinking about how I was wording my statement, and I can see where it may have been taken as a statement that equates awkwardness as assholery.
What I meant was that what this guy was saying his audience could be deliberately awkward in order to confuse women emotionally, literally turning awkwardness into a pick-up technique and using it to manipulate others. It’s as though he looked at awkward people in social situations possibly getting sympathy from the people they were interacting with and thought that it would be the perfect strategy to create an emotionally charged situation (at the same time not knowing what he was talking about).
I don’t know about the other times anyone has joked about awkwardness on the site, but I remember saying that earlier, so I wanted to say sorry. You’re not being overly sensitive, by the way. There’s no reason why you shouldn’t bring up problematic behavior or when you feel personal affront from a statement.
@Good: You don’t understand what exactly the problem here is, aren’t you? The problem is not that PUAs are using these techniques and succeeding at “short-circuiting” women’s brains, whatever that means. It’s that they literally think of sleeping with them as though it’s a bonus level in a damn video game, or that they can enter a certain code that will override a woman’s consent. Their attitude is the problem here, not their ineffectual techniques.
Do TRY to comprehend why that’s a problem, won’t you?
Viscaria, it’s not, he just wants to use it as an excuse to say “See! Women do it too!!!”
Literally his whole argument style is “No YOU!” or something similar “Two wrongs make a right!” It’s really pretty pathetic when you think about how long he’s been at this with us, if I’d spent this much time with people who were so much more knowledgable about…well.. everything, I’d have at least picked up one or two pointers about arguments and engaging with people conversationally. Especially if people had mentioned it to me over and over and over and over and over and over and over… and over.
Honestly, the actual technique a PUA uses is not the issue, the issue is and always has been that these people think using a technique to get someone into bed, instead of just not being manipulative, is normal or good. Hint: Whether or not a technique works, if you’re using it to fuck someone who otherwise wouldn’t fuck you, you’re doing some seriously unethical rapey shit. Period. Even if the sex doesn’t happen. It’s the fact you’re trying to fuck someone who doesn’t want to or wouldn’t want to fuck you without being fed lies/manipulation that’s the problem.
LesserGood’s irrelevant links: more numerous than an MRA gathering? I think probably so at this point.
And for the record, you blubbering, festing postule on the backside of a goat yapping endlessly against the harsh, beating sun of the desert, I am stupid enough to fall for a PUA trick, because I did, and I have, and it happens, and you want to know why? Because you can manipulate people fairly easily exactly because not everyone is constantly paranoid about other people. That doesn’t make it right.
Were you in control of your behavior? Just because you have a weak mind doesn’t make you non responsible. From the way you behave here, I’m not surprised that it worked on you and that it was used on you.
Good, focus. Would you just focus on what the problem is instead of shaming others for not sharing your twisted sense of “responsibility”?
You know who’s also responsible for their own behavior? PUA’s. and yet, Good does not seem to want to acknowledge that. It’s the PUA’s, like Julian up there, who are being manipulative assholes. Whether that works or not is not the point; the point is being a manipulative asshole is skeevy.
No, it’s like saying that someone who thinks that yelling “SHAZAM!” in your face will knock you out so they can steal everything in your house intends to be a thief.
That the procedure is patently ridiculous and unlikely to work does not change the intended outcome. If he is using hyperbole, then he’s telling people that shouting contradictory statements very quickly is a good way to make yourself appear attractive, which it isn’t. More importantly, if he intended to use hyperbole, he made some pretty poor language choices.
“You kill me”? Hyperbole.
“This is infinitely more entertaining than staring at a bag of hammers”? Hyperbole.
“The blow knocked him insensible”? Not hyperbole.
“Make her incapable of logically computing what’s being said”? Not hyperbole.