I’ve read and watched and listened to a lot of creepy pickup artist crap over the past few years while writing this blog, but in some ways this little video, from PUA “coach” Julian of Real Social Dynamics, one of the bigger and better known of the commercial “game” marketers, may well be the creepiest. Essentially, Julian provides tips to young men on how to “get” the girl of their dreams by temporarily driving her out of her mind.
No, really: he recommends that men overwhelm their female targets with confusing and contradictory stimuli to throw them so off-balance they’ll reflexively turn to their mental tormenters for support (and, maybe later, reward them with sex). This isn’t pick-up artistry so much as freak-out artistry.
The one thing about this video that is vaguely reassuring is that Julian’s examples of his technique in action are so crude and hamhanded I seriously doubt they’d actually work on anyone “in field,” as the PUAs like to say. What’s not so reassuring is that anyone would actually come up with something this predatory and perverse in the first place. Also, you know that at least a few of the video’s 32,000 viewers have actually tried out this technique on annoyed and bewildered women around the world. The world doesn’t really need any new ways for dudes to be assholes in clubs.
@Andrew Johnston, Your Chinese history lesson from a while back recently made it’s way into my bog. Click on my name if you want to see it alongside a bunch of cute doggie pictures. 🙂
@Binjabreel
“this is hands down one of the least ableist websites I’ve ever seen.”
I know, but socially awkward people seem to be an exception (some commenters have made fun of socially awkward people in the past and I’ve been meaning to say something about it for some time because being this way has caused me pain, but I know people here don’t mean any harm so I kept my mouth shut).
“I think what they’re saying is this particular way of gaslighting seems like a way of hiding deliberate assholry behind a screen of social awkwardness.”
I get that. Misogynistic entitled bastards who are also socially awkward use tricks to get into women’s pants. Misogynistic entitled bastards who are perfectly comfortable and skilled in social situations also use those tricks.
Please tell me if I’m being oversensitive. I don’t think so, though. I just want to make it clear that even if I suck interacting with people I am very empathetic, and I’m sure I’m not the only socially awkward person who is also a decent human being.
Social awkwardness isn’t a mental illness.
“Social awkwardness isn’t a mental illness.” True, but it also doesn’t necessarily mean that someone is necessarily an asshole. Personally, I think arubakeru’s point is important. It’s the overabundance of entitlement and simultaneous lack of empathy and decency that makes Julian such an asshole, not his relative level of comfort with social interaction.
arubakeru: You are right. I apologize if any of my remarks seemed to imply that. It was not my intention. This Julien guy seems to be manufacturing social awkwardness in order to manipulate a woman into bed, and it’s the manipulation part, not the socially awkward part, that’s skeevy. And if someone is making an effort to talk to someone, and comes off “weird” because they are socially awkward, that’s a lot different from what Julien is saying. I am sorry people have called you “weird.” That’s really mean. 🙁
katz: Oh yeah, that’s how you do it.
One thing I found interesting is that lesbians are beginning to use “game”:
http://lesbianpickupartist.blogspot.com/
http://www.pualingo.com/pua-definitions/lesbian-pua/
http://www.lesbianpickupartist.com/
But it’s not ableism because that’s specifically about mental and physical disabilities.
@katz
It’s a lack of a skill that most people take for granted. It’s involuntary. It’s like being a terrible singer, with the difference that you don’t need to sing but you have to interact with people every day. And it has nothing to do with being misogynistic.
I’m a slow writer… thanks guys! You are awesome!
Why, Good? Why in hell is that interesting to you?
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The aim of this technique is to mentally incapacitate women, right? Alright, so, imagining that this actually works as advertised and doesn’t give women the impression that you’re actually having a mental breakdown right in front of them, what you’re basically aiming for is rape. The intention is to get to a situation where she is driven out of her mind and incapable of any rationality or self control. Having sex with someone who is incapable of rational thought or self control is rape.
Fortunately, I’m fairly convinced that all this does is make you look like a drooling idiot.
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I'll give you my own Guaranteed Sex Advice though? Find someone who actually wants to have sex with you.
So, there’s probably not much doubt that he’s not actually in front of the Hollywood sign, but seeing that the shot would need to be angled upward to catch the sign like that, I’m having fun imagining how he’d have to be leaning to stay in such a shot while also appearing to be standing level.
Social awkwardness is not a mental illness, but it can stem from mental illnesses. I can personally attest to that.
However, I am personally not bothered by the occasional dogpile on socially awkward people, because I’ve spent my entire adult life trying my damnedest to learn how to act “normal,” and for the most part I’ve succeeded, at least enough to fake people out in social settings until I can get away.
It was hard work, so I get pretty annoyed by other socially awkward people (I’m not talking about you, arubakeru, I mean people I know IRL) who don’t even make any attempt to not freak people out, because they’re special snowflakes who can’t be expected to modify their behavior. It’s an entitled attitude, and yest it’s mostly men I see doing this, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if some women do it to.
It’s not ableism, but it can cause pain so I’m glad arubakeru brought it up. I don’t know that I do this a lot (I don’t know that I *don’t* do it either), but I’ll try to be better!
LesserGood, Congratulations! You’ve made the AMAZING DISCOVERY that lesbians are people! And like other people, they sometimes do good things, and they sometimes do bad things! You should write up a scientific paper on your AMAZING DISCOVERY!!!!
So what? Lesbians are still human – humans are entirely capable of being horrible, manipulative arseholes, even the ones with cooties.
Well, I see your point, but disagree, if only slightly. It doesn’t matter to me if someone is socially awkward because of ASD or anxiety or just garden variety shyness. What matters to me is not to falsely correlate “I don’t want to treat others with decency and respect” with “some physiological or psychological factor makes it difficult for me to gauge whether I am treating people with decency and respect.” For me, ableism is a useful term under which to resist such correlation.
@MordsithJ
I’m bipolar and had social phobia as a teen. So yeah, that has probably something to do with me being socially awkward. Or maybe the social phobia appeared because i sucked at interacting with people.
I don’t like being this way and sometimes other socially awkward people annoy me too, when they just don’t give a fuck about disturbing others (I try not to judge them too hard though).
Either way, what gillyrosebee said.
Also, not every socially awkward person is incapable of getting dates and/or sex without resorting to manipulation or coercion. Some of us even manage to be quite charming apparently, even if it is entirely by accident.
Look, I’m awkward as fuck (or I was in the past) so I know where this is coming from, and it’s totally legit to say that we shouldn’t conflate awkwardness with assholedom (which we generally don’t), but seriously, don’t group it under the label of an actual form of discrimination. Nobody says that socially awkward people shouldn’t be allowed out in public or calls for their mass sterilization. It’s like Shakesville’s thing about Brave being racist against Scottish people and redheads. Even if it’s sort of onto something, it’s just not the same.
I’m not going to watch skeevyboy’s video; the comments are clear enough.
But here’s something he (and you, SocialKenny, you little dipshit) might think of: if some dude comes up babbling nonsense or behaving weirdly or changing from one minute to another, I’m not going to be all “wtf” and eventually be undermined into getting into his bed.
I’m going to be thinking he’s exactly like every other person I’ve seen around who’s fried their brain on drugs, or is an alcoholic, or is simply off their face for whatever reason, on tp of being a piece of shit personality-wise.
I see people in that state quite often on public transport, and you know what? They’re not enticing. Pitiable, maybe, or frightening when they’re aggressive, or just fucking annoying when they won’t leave someone alone. But messing with the brain of the person they’re pestering? Nope.
@Good:
The site “lesbianpickupartist.com” has *got* to be a fake. It looks like a Cosmopolitan-themed website (i.e. the kind of thing that straight men think straight women enjoy, not anything the lesbians I know would like), and the testimonial from the girl who picks up a woman at Costa (the UK equivalent of Starbucks, only better) is complete BS. I doubt very much that a gay person, man or woman, can just hit on someone randomly outside of gay/lesbian bars.
@Katz
I didn’t mean to put social awkwardness in the same level as mental illness, I know it is not and I apologize if that misunderstanding somehow irritated you.
“it’s totally legit to say that we shouldn’t conflate awkwardness with assholedom (which we generally don’t)”
Sometimes commenters here do, I wouldn’t have said a thing about it if it wasn’t the case. That’s why I mentioned ableism, because this site is so cool about that and yet a problem like awkwardness seems to be -hopefully was- okay to make fun of.
Back to the OT, the Hollywood sign is on a steep slope, and pretty far from accessable roads:
http://0.tqn.com/d/golosangeles/1/7/G/e/-/-/KMD10ZeppelinHwdTour_0170lowx.jpg
So yeah, that angle’s impossible. And while there are hiking trails you can use to get up behind it, or on the same level as it, there is no flat place where this guy could be standing while being in front of it, especially not at such a short distance.
The aim of this technique is to mentally incapacitate women, right? Alright, so, imagining that this actually works as advertised and doesn’t give women the impression that you’re actually having a mental breakdown right in front of them, what you’re basically aiming for is rape.
That’s like calling a skilled salesman who can get someone to buy something they don’t need a thief. This is not Patty Hearst level brainwashing. You are taking the terminology a bit too literally. Stimulating a woman’s mind in a way that makes her more interested in you is not the same as mentally incapacitating her.