So, it finally happened. The men’s rights lecture and rally in Toronto that A Voice for Men have been breathlessly promoting for weeks — in no less than 17 separate posts — have both come to pass. Men’s Rights celebrities flew in from across the continent to attend the exciting events. Paul Elam was there! So was Karen Straughan! Even Dan Perrins made an appearance! (Oh, wait, I think he lives around there.)
In a post-rally post, AVFM’s Robert O’Hara declared the “Historic MHRA rally in Toronto” to have been a “huge success.”
Well, you can be the judge of that. Go here to watch some actual footage of the event. (Sorry, I can’t get it to embed here.) So far I’ve only watched the final 8-minute video at the top of the page, but it’s pretty revealing in and of itself. The event organizers almost outnumber the sparse crowd. And one of the speakers calls for MRAs to take up arms against their “communist” opponents. No, really, just watch.
In case the video gets pulled, or censored, I’ve taken the liberty of transcribing his remarks: :
There’s an organization out there called communism, and the communist manifesto says that the first thing they have to do is take over power. And they’ll never get elected. And they know that they’ll never get elected. So what they do is they say “we have to take power by violent methods,” right, so if you want to crack back against these people, I hate to say it, but you’ve gotta be prepared to pick up a gun and put down the books.
Emphasis mine.
Someone in the audience responds to this with a hearty “yep!” There’s a smattering of applause, mixed with boos. AVFM’s Dean Esmay hurridly ushers the speaker away from the microphone.
The speaker who follows Esmay — I didn’t catch his name — describes the counterprotesters (who held their own rally nearby) as being of “the hammer and sickle” and denigrates them as “queers.”
This isn’t so much history being made as history repeating itself. I suspect the rhetoric was similar at a lot of White Citizen Council rallies in the sixties.
Oh, and the HISTORIC LECTURE that so many MRAs were hoping and dreaming that feminists would disrupt? Feminists ignored it. Apparently, according to one MRA on Reddit who claimed to have been there, a little more than a hundred people showed up.
Congratulations, A Voice for Men, on your FLAWLESS VICTORY!
I’ll watch as much of the rest of the rally as I can force myself to sit through, and add anything else worth adding.
EDITED TO ADD: I watched the video that covered the rest of the rally. It was pretty uneventful: a low energy, sparsely attended rally with a bunch of half-assed speeches. Apparently no one at A Voice for Men or CAFE, the co-host of the rally, bothered to prepare anything to say — perhaps because they were all expecting some sort of feminist riot? The “pick up a gun” speaker wasn’t one of the scheduled speakers, just someone they gave the microphone to when he raised his hand after the scheduled speakers were done.
One moment that did stand out: a trans man — apparently a member of CAFE — briefly took the mic, taking offense at the chants from the counterprotestors calling MRA’s “anti-gay.” I would suggest he take a look at AVFM’s not-so-proud history of homophobia and transphobia.
EDITED TO ADD AGAIN: Here’s a picture of the event from Civilian Media. You can almost taste the excitement! From left, Nick Reading of Men’s Rights Edmonton, Dean Esmay of AVFM, the legendary Paul Elam (looking a little bewildered), and two other dudes. Paul evidently HEARTS Fucking Their Shit Up. Oh, Paul, we HEART U!
Aw, I want an eBaby.
Re: skidmarks, some people just, physiologically, have a tougher time with them than others, toilet paper or no (though matters are far worse if toilet paper is not being utilised.) I don’t give a damn if a dude is prone to such things. My problem lies with him expecting me to do his skidmarked laundry. Excuse me, Sir, but I don’t believe you’re required to wash my period panties. Why on earth should I be laundering your poopy underpants?
Violence against boys and men is often committed by other males. I wonder if they ever pointed that out. Yet avfm spends so much time bashing feminists and women.
SadinaFem — when we point out that most women who are murdered are murdered by current or former partners, they say that most men are killed by men and since more men are killed annually, fatal DV is less a problem than male victims of violence. Respond that men remain the aggressor in both cases and it’s all YOU HATE MEN! Why don’t you care about the men being killed!
Note that this is a side effect of socializing men as the strong powerful violent gender a cue the cries of MISANDRY!! up to 11.
So yep, they can make anything into a claim of how feminists are misandrist.
I’ve watched lets plays of both Vampire the Masquerade CRPGs, as well as having a little experience with the original TTRPGs.
I’m much experienced with its sequel TTRPG Vampire the Requiem, though. VtR is definitely worth a look if you wanna a good horror tabletop roleplaying game, IMO.
Although, right now, I’m using a different rpg system to base a modern fantasy setting on. I guess it’s what you call world-building. I’ve seen regulars on these threads talk about playing TTRPGs, I’d like to hear more about that stuff.
Warren Farrell likes to go on about how unfair it is that men are “drafted” into being “unpaid bodyguards” for the women in their lives. And that this is an unfair imposition on men overall.
He sort of forgets that these “bodyguards” are protecting these women from … other men.
Insofar as they are actually protecting them and not the ones actually harming them.
As a dude, I think I had to serve as a “bodyguard” for a woman all of once in recent memory, and that just consisted of me telling a dude he had to leave. I’ve also had to step in to keep a drunk male friend from starting a fight. That was actually a much more dicey situation.
what is this then? Exaggerated (and entirely anachronistic) anticommunism? Macho-man militancy against the invisable, conspiratorial (and long ago vanquished) foe? Oh my, men’s rights is officially a far-right ideology and it’s only a matter of time before “cultural marxism” starts coming up more and more on their blogs. Their swastikas and 1488 tattoos must be coming in the mail shortly.
It seems the most petty-bourgeois, libertarian, effete and nerdy “mass” “movement” in human history is rapidly descending into unironic fascism, what with Roosh V defending the white honor of that shithead brogrammer. I’ve got a question for the people who’ve been laughing at these geeks for a long time: have they gotten more extreme or is this just normal behavior for them?
I believe there is a phenomenon, I forget what it’s called, where the most extreme members of any group drive out the moderates and then reinforce each other’s extreme views in the absence of any moderating influence. I recall a few years ago, after “Women Who Run With Wolves” there was a whole “Men’s Movement” with all the drumming and the Robert Bly books. I don’t know if the current MRA movement has any connection to that, but it may be an example of how a benign trend becomes more and more reactionary and aggressive.
Wow. I’ve been lied to! I can’t believe every single father who looked so excited with their new babeh has been lying to me! Serves me right for working in obstetrics I guess!
@auggziliary. I guess:
A) Because no man ever wants a baby.
B) All those eeeeeeevil family courts would never let them! The sole purpose of those is to force poor men to pay child support!
/sarcasm.
I’m really baffled by the claim that abstinence isn’t a real choice. I’m under the impression that, if you do not have sex with a particular woman, that woman will not be able to hold you responsible for her pregnancy or liable for child support. Is this because of SPERMJACKING?
“Honey, I’m pregnant. Cash or credit?”
The real question is, paper or plastic?
No. I wish I could say I believed it was, because my interpretation is that it’s not an option because men needz the secks (where women don’t). Spermjacking would at least be a funny reason. I cannot think that it’s anything more than someone feeling that the entire gender of men require, need, as a necessity for life, sex with a cis woman (I’m just assuming that they don’t think non-heterosexual people exist and that trans* people aren’t considered people in their eyes). That’s why it’s such misandry that women can say no, it’s basically like telling someone they can’t eat, or drink, because sex is such a ~fundamental requirement~ for cis men.
The real question is (given they obviously hate the idea of children), why did they forget rubber?
And they never seem to see the difference between “no, you can’t have dinner with me” or “no, I don’t feel like making you a cake right now” and “you may never, ever eat again, because I hate you (and all men)”.
“why did they forget rubber?”
*dies*
SittieKitty — lots of places you can actually return the baby to the hospital (or other approved locations) under “safe haven” laws. The concept is much older than feminism though and meant to give mothers a way to anonymously put the kid up for adoption. Afaik it started back when infanticide did actually occur with some regularity, I know I’ve seen medieval style “baby boxes”
So yeah, that one is an option, but afaik the person depositing the newborn at the safe haven doesn’t need to be female. But I could be wrong on that, and how old the infant may be is location based, most places, again afaik, limit it to really young, like under 6 weeks young.
And by “contact to have baby” I assume he means surrogacy and cannot figure out wtf that has to do with anything. Again, depends where you are, and the surrounding laws can be a fucking disaster, but people do get pregnant specifically to have a baby for someone else (some for pay, some for family or friends)
What gets me is if his point was “women have more choices” then just listing birth control options would’ve worked fine, and made sense.
That list is a crock of shit, and what makes me even more angry is they are purposely lying to people on campus, some of which may have left home for the first time and know little about sex and contraceptives (because we all know from stories here how well our health classes covered birth control). It’s out right fucking lying. And the thing is women* typically know more about birth control because we are the ones who can get pregnant, while fewer men are knowledgable in all methods. So the MRM is purposely misleading men about their and their partners options…. How “misandric” is that, lying to men? I think a good follow up for feminist or health groups on the UofT campus would be to make posters with a list of REAL birth control options and how to obtain them.
* this should probably say uterus holders instead of just women
OMG…. cloudiah, it’s not the pathetic back of crowd shot, but rather the frontal. I assume that’s Esmay looking like the dryer exploded (that or a really bad example of cosplay). It’s not that I want to say, “what a sorry bunch of losers” but when you are out to make an impression, you should strive to make a good one, and visuals are the hook.
Well of course females don’t need teh secks. The fridge doesn’t need it, the dish washer doesn’t need it, neither the oven nor the microwave need it, so why would the female need it? It’s just silly nonsense to suggest that it’s needed!
The reason for this is twofold. Firstly, it’s about time that females started taking responsibility for their reproductive health, but most importantly it’s because females are filthy and need to clean themselves up, which is why it’s perfectly sensible to have unprotected sex with them – the logic is irrefutable! So long as you don’t… think.
I think early 20s suck because we tell people they are adults, and capable, and going to take over the world, and at the height of everything; and they aren’t.
All the responsibilities, but not much money, no access to the levers of power, in minor positions at work, get their opinions discounted (even when riight) etc.
The dissonance is huge.
Cassandra: Babies! They’re the newest hot item on eBay.
I wish that were more of a joke.
First of five articles by Reuters on underground trafficking in children in the US. Yahoo and Craiglslist.
As to the, “abstinence = N/A” I think the argument is that if a woman says, “he’s the father” then The Courts will find him guilty and make him pay, even if he never had sex with her.
He can only hope she doesn’t add rape to the list, or something.
Oh dear, check out the comments on this article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/27/mens-rights-anti-date-rape-college_n_3997953.html?ref=topbar
=S
I’m getting really tired of this shit. I’ve been through similar orientation-type lectures. I never felt like I was being accused of anything or demonised because of my Y chromosome. One thing I did feel was pride – pride that I was attending a university that cared about its students and wanted to build a safe and free environment, in which we could thrive. Positive feelings aside, it actually is helpful – it effects opinions, which effect actions. It is okay, and it’s absolutely defensible. It makes things better for all of us.
Re: crocs. At first I thought they were amazingly comfortable, but then my arches started falling. It took me a while to figure out the problem. I need more support than crocs give, so back to Birkenstocks for me. When I’m not wearing my ugly shoes with orthotics.
Return baby to hospital. Return the baby to the hospital. O.o The thing that completely boggles my mind, every time, is the complete lack of awareness that MRAs have of anything outside their own tiny brains. Sure, a woman can go through almost a year of pregnancy and recovery, hand the baby *back* to the hospital, and go back to her slutty, whorish life with nary a look back. Just like she bought a pair of shoes, decided they didn’t match her purse after all, and return them.
People don’t *get* babies from the hospital. A hospital is not a baby boutique. Good lord.
I wondered who paid expenses for Elam, Esmay and the other avfm folk from far away?
Also, I’m curious, how many people need to attended before a meeting is a rally? I don’t think this counts…